Engage Carbine Course Review

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  • erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,891
    Rockville, MD
    OK, now that I've had a night to meditate on the Engage Carbine Course that I took on Sunday, I've decided to write a more formal review, this time focusing more on what actually happened.

    On Thursday night, we all congregated at the shop with our guns and gear. There were eight shooters and two instructors (AJ, Buddy). Everyone was packing a higher-end AR-15 (including a couple SBRs) with a high-end optic (Eotech, ACOG, Aimpoint Micro, etc.). This was a classroom session with some gear evaluation - making sure we were bringing the right kind of guns, magazine storage, etc. and demonstrating some basic "here's how to hold your AR-15 right". I think this was a worthwhile session, since it could prevent future problems on Sunday.

    Sunday morning, we all met up at "Engage Armament North", in Thurmont. Doughnuts and coffee were enjoyed by all. Once everyone showed up, we headed off to the range in a variety of four wheel drive vehicles. There is no way on Earth I would make the drive without 4WD. The range itself is huge, and has the biggest berm I've ever seen. It's set up pretty good, too - big covered pavilion with lots of tables to dump your gear on.

    The class operated with "big boy safety rules". That is to say, unlike every range I've ever been to, you could have a loaded and safed AR-15 behind the firing line. For the mil/LEO crowd, this was probably not a big deal, but I found it something of a revelation, and had to unlearn some bad habits I had picked up from my "range-only" training regimen. That said, at no time did I ever feel unsafe; the guys there were all safety-conscious, and the instructors were on the ball.

    We led the day with prone shooting to get a zero. This was my first time shooting prone, so it was an experience. I have one of those finicky optics with old-Fastfire-style adjustments (ie, requires tools and no clicks), so I spent a lot of time running back behind the line to twist little screws into new places. Eventually, we were all zeroed in at 36yards. The rest of the day was standing fire.

    After that, it was drills, lunch, and more drills. Most of the drills were pretty conventional, but there were a few genuinely interesting ones tossed in (eg, cross-lane fire, short/far, etc.). I don't want it to sound like the more conventional drills were boring; they absolutely were not. Doing the drill with an instructor is an entirely different (and better!) experience than doing it with based on seeing some videos.

    Another thing I liked about the drills was that we were divided into two groups so we could space out a bit more. One group would be on the firing line, the other would be a few paces behind it. This slowed the class a bit and gave us a chance to see how other people were running the drills. I thought this was a pretty valuable thing, because it gave some time for some introspection on how I was running it in comparison. I don't know if this setup was planned or an on-the-spot compromise, but I think it's something to keep.

    Nothing we did was all that physically demanding. I am big and out-of-shape, and I ran the course with a fully-loaded cross-draw vest and a 100oz hydration carrier. At no point did I ever start breathing hard due to physical exertion. The malfunction drills were the most physically exhausting part, and probably why my left shoulder is sorer than my right shoulder.

    I don't have any real complaints about the class. I would have liked to have seen more attention given to iron sights (albeit no one was running them as a primary), alternate weapon systems (eg, where should I zero in my AK at?), and magazine management (ie, in my pouches). The fact that we were all running tricked-out AR-15s let them skip some of this stuff, and I wonder what would have happened if I had thrown my Galil or AK into the mix. Food for thought for the instructors... if I take the class again, I may be doing that. :) Oh, and I think they need to recommend electronic earmuffs. I had a lot of difficulty hearing the instructors through my non-electronic ones, which led to a lot of on/off muff management... there were a couple times I was glad that AJ was demonstrating with a suppressed rifle.

    Everyone I spoke to had a lot of fun and got a lot out of the class, and that includes myself. Certainly, I feel much more confident with my carbine after having taken this class, and have a much better idea of what I need to work on at home and at the range. I am looking forward to taking another class with AJ and Buddy soon!
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,891
    Rockville, MD
    I put those on my Amazon wishlist last night. Almost all of my shooting is outdoors nowadays, so the huge muffs I used for indoor handgun work are overkill.

    And, yeah, it was a ton of fun. I'm sore today from lugging around my rifle for hours, but it's a good kinda sore.
     

    blackseven

    Regular Guy
    Aug 30, 2011
    262
    Full time job.:)

    Might I suggest these? I've had them quite a while and have very good value.

    Thanks for the review, sounds fun.

    I have these, best investment I've ever made in terms of range gear. I've worn them for six hours straight before and not had any discomfort.

    Awesome review, this sounds like a really cool course.
     

    Engage Instructor

    Active Member
    Industry Partner
    Oct 27, 2011
    257
    Thank you for the awesome review!! I had a blast teaching you and everyone else in the class. The breaking up into groups was intended 1.) So you don't have the brass burns as frequently. 2.) So you can watch what is going on and learn from not only me but the other students in the class. We have an awesome opportunity to "knock off the training wheels" and let people actually apply good firearms safety while walking around with a loaded rifle. Here at Engage, safety is paramount but we are not paralyzed by safety and I feel that students understand safety more when they can apply it in a loose environment. I am glad you learned a lot and I have done the same from the students. We can always make the class more efficient or find newer and better ways to articulate our material to the student so it is my pledge to you, and future students, that if you attend my class again, it will be much better then the last. Thank you for the excellent review and your time.
     

    Engage Instructor

    Active Member
    Industry Partner
    Oct 27, 2011
    257
    We are planning today my friend, we have been busy as hell with the election surge so I will get that information out as soon as possible!
     

    ShiNNinG

    Active Member
    Jul 14, 2008
    223
    White Marsh
    I did back to back classes with EA. AJ and Buddy are both great instructors with different applicable backgrounds which gives the attendee variation to explore what is best for themselves. I wish I could set up a tent for a week to live at that range and with the expansion plans it will only get better. Looking forward to ANY classes they hold in the future as I'm sure they will be just as exceptional.
     

    Engage Instructor

    Active Member
    Industry Partner
    Oct 27, 2011
    257
    Just to let you in on some of the reviews that other shooters have given me. This is from a student in my class:

    AJ, had yet another great time with you and your crew. Your knowledge and skill is obviously tip top as you could not tell this was the first time giving this class. I look forward to future classes offered. Big thanks to Andy for working hard behind the scenes too.

    -Your background and experience as a carbine shooter.
    - Range work, a couple beginner/intermediate classes given in the area

    -What you liked about the course.
    - Steel!!!! The last drill was the best drill.
    - Skipping some of the preliminary stuff like carbine operation and dis/reassembly etc… While I did not require this info, it could be rolled into a basic course in the future for those that do.
    - Information and feedback was provided but no one way to operate was forced
    - Lunch!

    -What you learned about the carbine that you didn't know before
    - A good understanding in real world about PoA vs. PoI, read about it many times but seeing makes it sink in

    -Do you feel comfortable with carbine after coming to the course.
    - I wish I could sleep with mine, but the wifey does not approve :(

    -What do you want in future course's in relation to the carbine
    - A little more time at the range focused on the trigger fundamentals, it was covered extensively in the basic pistol, but this is the information I found most valuable. It carried over for me from the pistol but it wasn't as thoroughly discussed in the carbine.
    - More abuse, you guys are too nice :), maybe in a more advanced course.

    -Anything else you would like to add.
    - Both you and Buddy are fantastic. Having different backgrounds and experience to pull from makes for a more impressive experience. My only complaint, and this applies to the Basic Pistol as well, is that you and Buddy should swap the groups your working with half way thru the drills. Each of you has different experience and things your looking at and commenting on, switching would expose the student to that additional perspective.
     

    mopar92

    Official MDS Court Jester
    May 5, 2011
    9,513
    Taneytown
    There will be plenty more to come.

    I was signed up and got second degree burns on the right side of my body. Running a rifle and supporting the weight would have killed me. So I had to opt out. But please Mr. Engage Instructor reserve me a spot in the next class.
     

    C45P312

    Member
    Jan 17, 2012
    56
    Virginia
    It's always great to read AARs for those on the fence with taking a class with Engage. I'll have to see if I can make the next carbine course.
     

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