ATF raid for client list

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  • Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,172
    Outside the Gates
    Nope, that's not what Ares was selling. Those are clearly legal 80%'s

    ATF picked Ares because they do not have an FFL at all and the lowers were not like these.

    You are falling prey to Ares' beautifully orchestrated propaganda
     

    hodgepodge

    Senior Member (Gold)
    Sep 3, 2009
    10,084
    Arnold, MD
    From Ares' Facebook page:


    ares.jpg

    ares2.jpg
     

    chsnprodigy

    Active Member
    Dec 24, 2012
    128
    Nope, that's not what Ares was selling. Those are clearly legal 80%'s

    ATF picked Ares because they do not have an FFL at all and the lowers were not like these.

    You are falling prey to Ares' beautifully orchestrated propaganda

    Not trying to get into an argument with you Mark, but a poly80 from poly80.com looks just like eparmory.com poly lower.

    http://www.eparmory.com/EP80-Receiver-Black-p/ep80black.htm

    poly80.com: http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1562119

    Im just trying to figure out why they targeted Ares...thats all...
     

    wolfwood

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 24, 2011
    1,361
    Not trying to get into an argument with you Mark, but a poly80 from poly80.com looks just like eparmory.com poly lower.

    http://www.eparmory.com/EP80-Receiver-Black-p/ep80black.htm

    poly80.com: http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1562119

    Im just trying to figure out why they targeted Ares...thats all...

    Maybe Ares was not the only one to get targeted. Maybe everyone else agreed to comply to ATF demands and did not get raided because they did not want to put up a fight
     

    chsnprodigy

    Active Member
    Dec 24, 2012
    128
    Because the squeaky wheel gets the grease

    Thats kind of what I was thinking. Seeing how California had the "ghost gun" targeting and 80% lower location in California would be perfect.

    Interesting side note though, Ares Armory address is 208 N Freeman St, OCEANSIDE, CA....and Poly80.com address is 180 Roymar Rd, OCEANSIDE, CA. So why did the ATF hit Ares and not Poly80.com place.....there has to be more to the story....
     

    iH8DemLibz

    When All Else Fails.
    Apr 1, 2013
    25,396
    Libtardistan
    People have been dancing around the, homegrown, law for the past year while simultaneously poking the proverbial hornet's nest and now everyone is surprised that someone got stung.

    Not standing up for the ATF here and not saying that 80's aren't paperweights. Saying it's not too bright for a non FFL to have these in their shop.

    They were just asking for trouble to come knocking. Warrant or not.

    And why would the shop owner be keeping a list of customer's names on these "legal paperweights" if he truly felt it was all above board? He's done his customers a huge disservice.
     

    chsnprodigy

    Active Member
    Dec 24, 2012
    128
    So, pretend for a minute that you find yourself on that customer list, what do you do?

    The only reason I can see the ATF raiding Ares is becuase they have the ability to put all the parts together to make a rifle (they sell everything needed), where as poly80.com only sells the 80% lower polymer.

    If I pretend for a minute that I found myself on a customer list.....I would pretend that when I completing my 80% lower I pretend cut to much out and pretend that I had to scrap my polymer lower. This is the problem the ATF will have if they decide to go to the customers....you can't track something that doesnt have a serial number OR could of been messed up durring machining/dremeling to complete. Mistakes happen...."pretend" that while machining your cutter grabbed the part and chewed it up. just saying...:)
     

    chsnprodigy

    Active Member
    Dec 24, 2012
    128
    So if these aren't firearms. There is no legal issue with the ATF having a list of who bought them right?

    At the same time, there is no reason for the company to provide a customer list right?

    What a cluster.

    I agee with you 100%, either there is more to the story (something like Ares completed a rifle and sold it, which would be stupid if you dont have a FFL) or California and the Government got togehter and targeted Ares becuase of the entire "ghost gun" nonsense. I do agree its a big cluster!
     

    Ab_Normal

    Ab_member
    Feb 2, 2010
    8,613
    Carroll County
    Regardless of how the atf tries to twist it, these lowers have to meet the definition of (A) before they can meet the definition of (B). It is right there in the law:

    18 U.S. Code § 921 - Definitions

    (3) The term “firearm” means
    (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
    (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
     

    Ab_Normal

    Ab_member
    Feb 2, 2010
    8,613
    Carroll County
    I agee with you 100%, either there is more to the story (something like Ares completed a rifle and sold it, which would be stupid if you dont have a FFL) or California and the Government got togehter and targeted Ares becuase of the entire "ghost gun" nonsense. I do agree its a big cluster!

    If they only completed 1 rifle they would probably have a reasonable chance of not being considered a manufacturer. 2 or more would be a little harder to explain.
     

    iH8DemLibz

    When All Else Fails.
    Apr 1, 2013
    25,396
    Libtardistan
    Regardless of how the atf tries to twist it, these lowers have to meet the definition of (A) before they can meet the definition of (B). It is right there in the law:

    18 U.S. Code § 921 - Definitions

    (3) The term “firearm” means
    (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
    (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;

    Are you saying the additional 20 percent is the converted part?
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    So, pretend for a minute that you find yourself on that customer list, what do you do?

    claymores and welcome mat tiger traps. That or toss one in a offsite location from your home and wait to see how this plays out for other customers. If someone comes knocking, "I screwed up and threw it away", is easy to say if it's nowhere on your property.
     

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