ATF raid for client list

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  • Blackstar65

    Active Member
    Jun 27, 2010
    994
    Have any of you watched the milling video on the ep armory website? EP ArmorLly actually makes the lower. It appears that the lower is originally milled out to about 90%- 95% then back filled with the white polymer to 80% for a jigless milling process for the end user. That is crucks of the BATFE complaint.
     

    jpo183

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 20, 2013
    4,116
    in Maryland
    Have any of you watched the milling video on the ep armory website? EP ArmorLly actually makes the lower. It appears that the lower is originally milled out to about 90%- 95% then back filled with the white polymer to 80% for a jigless milling process for the end user. That is crucks of the BATFE complaint.

    .....no it's not. This has been addressed many times.
     

    TheBert

    The Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 10, 2013
    7,687
    Gaithersburg, Maryland

    Blackstar65

    Active Member
    Jun 27, 2010
    994
    Have any of you watched the milling video on the ep armory website? EP ArmorLly actually makes the lower. It appears that the lower is originally milled out to about 90%- 95% then back filled with the white polymer to 80% for a jigless milling process for the end user. That is crucks of the BATFE complaint.

    Someone on another forum explained the manufacturing process. Its the reverse of what I thought. I have to say pretty slick and technically legal. I wonder if they would have had the same problem if the white polymer section was the same color as the rest of the lower.
     

    john_bud

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 23, 2009
    2,045
    I am interested in others thoughts, not opinions, about the content of the third to last paragraph in the article.

    Where it starts "That said, simply purchasing a firearm from a non-dealer is not a federal crime." Yes I left out the words within the parentheses on purpose. I still hunt and peck in this iPhone keyboard.

    I too am curious. What would the charge be? Failure to fill out that stupid form?


    Someone on another forum explained the manufacturing process. Its the reverse of what I thought. I have to say pretty slick and technically legal. I wonder if they would have had the same problem if the white polymer section was the same color as the rest of the lower.


    Interesting aspect of the atf complaint that two color plastic makes it too easy to complete. I double checked, and there is no skill set requirement to the 2A, nor a tool set minimum requirement. As I understand it, the constitution applies to those with machinist skills / equipment and to those without machinist skills / equipment. The machining operations are identical for aluminum as well as polymer, just the difficulty is different.
     

    Robert1955

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 25, 2012
    1,614
    Glen Burnie
    Interesting aspect of the atf complaint that two color plastic makes it too easy to complete. I double checked, and there is no skill set requirement to the 2A, nor a tool set minimum requirement. As I understand it, the constitution applies to those with machinist skills / equipment and to those without machinist skills / equipment. The machining operations are identical for aluminum as well as polymer, just the difficulty is different.

    As I recall there was a 80% aluminum lower that had the outline of the trigger pocket as part of the casting and ATF said no go to it, made it an 81%er I guess.
     

    Haides

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 12, 2012
    3,784
    Glen Burnie
    I am interested in others thoughts, not opinions, about the content of the third to last paragraph in the article.

    Where it starts "That said, simply purchasing a firearm from a non-dealer is not a federal crime." Yes I left out the words within the parentheses on purpose. I still hunt and peck in this iPhone keyboard.

    But Ares was still making a business off selling them. If it turns out for whatever reason the lowers are "firearms," then that is what's going to cause problems. They weren't selling them as private sales.
     

    TxAggie

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 25, 2012
    4,734
    Anne Arundel County, MD
    I would have encrypted the Hard drives with truecrypt and then laughed at the ATF when they asked for the password


    You've heard of the code breakers down the street at "The Building" before, right? They threw out spying on US Citizens long ago and even truecrypt is probably no match for their Crays.
     

    TxAggie

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 25, 2012
    4,734
    Anne Arundel County, MD
    If these allegations of Ares being less than on the up and up, then they piss me off even more than the ATF. We've got enough issues with public perception without this nightmare. And even worse than that, if they are indeed arming criminals, well then they are no better than Holder and his Fast and Furious fiasco.
    The sad thing is, if they did intentionally break the law, the media will never report how most of the pro gun community will support Ares' prosecution for arming thugs. Instead they will runs old footage of everyone supporting them during the whole billboard sign debate.
     

    TheBert

    The Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 10, 2013
    7,687
    Gaithersburg, Maryland
    But Ares was still making a business off selling them. If it turns out for whatever reason the lowers are "firearms," then that is what's going to cause problems. They weren't selling them as private sales.


    Just have congress pass a law, again, that takes a legal activity and make it illegal retroactively.

    What do you mean they they weren't selling them as private sales? Since when is a contract between a corporation and an individual not a private sale? Don't muddle the waters with the illogic that governments are corporations.
     

    TheBert

    The Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 10, 2013
    7,687
    Gaithersburg, Maryland
    If these allegations of Ares being less than on the up and up, then they piss me off even more than the ATF. We've got enough issues with public perception without this nightmare. And even worse than that, if they are indeed arming criminals, well then they are no better than Holder and his Fast and Furious fiasco.
    The sad thing is, if they did intentionally break the law, the media will never report how most of the pro gun community will support Ares' prosecution for arming thugs. Instead they will runs old footage of everyone supporting them during the whole billboard sign debate.


    The issue is how these lowers were manufactured and sold.
     

    john_bud

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 23, 2009
    2,045
    The issue is how these lowers were manufactured and sold.


    Maybe, but with all the hysteria on all sides, who knows for sure?

    I hope that once the manufacturing process is shown to be "correct", that EP can go back to producing parts.

    But... I think the atf's goal is to stop them with or without legal justification and the inventory and processing equipment will not be returned willingly until long after they are bankrupt.
     

    huesmann

    n00b
    Mar 23, 2012
    1,927
    Silver Spring, MD
    I think you have that backwards. EP asked for clarification, Ares had been doing build parties.

    The goofy thing is that the ATF is sticking with the story about the FC pocket being formed THEN filled. From a mold making perspective, it's a lot more logical (and industry usual) to make the center plug and inject the polymer around it.
    Exactly. I'm sure that's what the tab on the plug is for--to hold it in place while they inject polymer around it. If all they did was fill the pocket of the receiver, there would be no need for the tab.

    To take it one step farther, a 100% complete aluminum receiver filled with candle wax back to the point of 80% is essentially the same as what they claim.
    Then the Poly guys can show ATF how they start with the plug, and give them a candle wax plug and tell them to go right ahead and cast their aluminum 100% around the plug. :D
     

    Maestro Pistolero

    Active Member
    Mar 20, 2012
    876
    claymores and welcome mat tiger traps. That or toss one in a offsite location from your home and wait to see how this plays out for other customers. If someone comes knocking, "I screwed up and threw it away", is easy to say if it's nowhere on your property.

    You might want to reconsider lying to a federal agent. Ask Martha Stewart. Better to say nothing or refer them to your attorney.
     

    Haides

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 12, 2012
    3,784
    Glen Burnie
    What do you mean they they weren't selling them as private sales? Since when is a contract between a corporation and an individual not a private sale? Don't muddle the waters with the illogic that governments are corporations.

    Okay, so I used the wrong word, my bad. Go ahead and replace "private" with whatever word you want to use to distinguish between selling for business/profit and a transaction between individuals. You know, the same distinction we make here all the time between you and I meeting up and trading a 10/22 for cash FTF, versus buying from an FFL.

    You knew what I meant, you didn't have to go and complicate it.
     

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