Educate me on External Hollow Point

[jokie]

underwoodammo.com is what I use. They deliver to my Naptown address.

 

[John from MD]

Restricted shipment to MARYLAND ??? Lehigh Defense/UNDERWOOD: Legal in Maryland ??? Purchase elsewhere????

Midway ships them here.

 

[John from MD]

MIDWAY : UNAVAILABLE DUE TO SHIPPING RESTRICTIONS, SAME AS uNDERWOOD????

I just got a box of Underwood .32 ACP and .380 ACP from Midway yesterday.

You don't live in Annapolis by any chance do you?

 

[teratos]

I just want a hollowpoint filled with little vials of herpes. They may live, but they'll have a raging case of the herp afterwards. They could be called "tac-VD"

How many vials do you need?

 

[babalou]

Huh, that’s new (ish). I bought probably 10 boxes from them about a year ago. Is it YOUR location? MD has some zip codes that are no bueno. Hampstead 21074 isn’t one if them last I checked.

I have purchased from Underwood to 20874 a couple years ago in Germantown and recently to Glenelg without issue. Got a bunch of boxes for my recent acquisition .380 Sterling

My issue is that I get alerts for discounts from Underwood but they are never in stock...

 

[w2kbr]

I'm in Severn..21144 I shall try again....

EDIT:Well, I just don't get it...worked this time w/o a hitch.....I do not have an answer...

 

[John from MD]

I have purchased from Underwood to 20874 a couple years ago in Germantown and recently to Glenelg without issue. Got a bunch of boxes for my recent acquisition .380 Sterling

My issue is that I get alerts for discounts from Underwood but they are never in stock...

You and me both. I think something smells with their offer.

 

[babalou]

You and me both. I think something smells with their offer.

hahaha

 

[AlBeight]

I'm in Severn..21144 I shall try again....

EDIT:Well, I just don't get it...worked this time w/o a hitch.....I do not have an answer...

Solar flare?

 

[boule]

The difference is that this needs higher velocities to work, and in a target the greatest effects are immediately upon penetrating soft tissue. That is reduced as the bullet slows, material has time to stretch out of the way, and the velocity of the jets is reduced. This is one area where traditional HPs have an advantage, they take a couple inches to open up, then have the full diameter to crush tissue for the remainder of their path, and many designs do have some minor hydrodynamic jetting depending on the expanded shape.

I actually doubt the wounding mechanism at pistol velocities. You do have a cavity that is shaped to displace the material outwards. It does not concentrate the displaced material the same way as a high pressure jet cutter would do through a small nozzle but instead radiates it outward. How fast the actual acceleration is could be simulated, maybe someone with a litte bit more knowledge can do it? Even if it is 1/5 of the frontal surface, the material will not be displaced that much faster than across an ogive.
Additionally, the bullet is moving forward so the "jet" will not continue to act on a single spot but rather travel along the path of the bullet. Thus, you end up witih limited mass displaced acting against tissue of the same density and with a decent elastic factor. You probably want to compare the effect with moving a piece of plastic slowly across a pressure cutter vs. pulling it across really fast.

There have been a few attempts to create a bullet that will work by displacing tissue. Most would just count on the hydrostatic pressure wave (impala bullets) or just use them for a decent cut entry wound (S&B). All so far have found a limited follwing among hunters but are not the most popular choice.

One of the things I do have to give is barrier penetration. The shape seems pretty conductive to penetrate plywood or drywall. Would love to see how they perform compared to expanding bullets when hitting a sheet wall or a windshield.

 

[teratos]

I actually doubt the wounding mechanism at pistol velocities. You do have a cavity that is shaped to displace the material outwards. It does not concentrate the displaced material the same way as a high pressure jet cutter would do through a small nozzle but instead radiates it outward. How fast the actual acceleration is could be simulated, maybe someone with a litte bit more knowledge can do it? Even if it is 1/5 of the frontal surface, the material will not be displaced that much faster than across an ogive.
Additionally, the bullet is moving forward so the "jet" will not continue to act on a single spot but rather travel along the path of the bullet. Thus, you end up witih limited mass displaced acting against tissue of the same density and with a decent elastic factor. You probably want to compare the effect with moving a piece of plastic slowly across a pressure cutter vs. pulling it across really fast.

There have been a few attempts to create a bullet that will work by displacing tissue. Most would just count on the hydrostatic pressure wave (impala bullets) or just use them for a decent cut entry wound (S&B). All so far have found a limited follwing among hunters but are not the most popular choice.

One of the things I do have to give is barrier penetration. The shape seems pretty conductive to penetrate plywood or drywall. Would love to see how they perform compared to expanding bullets when hitting a sheet wall or a windshield.

Have you seen some of the gel testing? They perform admirably. This guy is a bit of a mush-mouth, but the gel testing is good:

 

[Threeband]

Where are Thompson and LaGarde when we need them?

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

If they named it differently, then you'd probably be legal with it in NJ & NY.

Phillips head

 

[P-12 Norm]

Phillips head

Go with that.
NJ and NY are not smart enough to figure it out.

 

[boule]

Have you seen some of the gel testing? They perform admirably. This guy is a bit of a mush-mouth, but the gel testing is good:

So far, he has proven that a heavier bullet with a differently constructed meplat will penetrate further than a lighter one. In order to prove the "wounding" mechanism, you would have to show a spiral shaped pattern in the gel. If not, all these bullets do is displace material - like every other bullet does as well.
Yeah, they are doing a good job of selecting weight and shape in order to have the best energy transfer but still waiting for definite proof on the wounding mechanism. Fill the gel with dye, use ballistic soap or anything that will show the effect of those jets.

 

[Allen65]

So far, he has proven that a heavier bullet with a differently constructed meplat will penetrate further than a lighter one. In order to prove the "wounding" mechanism, you would have to show a spiral shaped pattern in the gel. If not, all these bullets do is displace material - like every other bullet does as well.
Yeah, they are doing a good job of selecting weight and shape in order to have the best energy transfer but still waiting for definite proof on the wounding mechanism. Fill the gel with dye, use ballistic soap or anything that will show the effect of those jets.

The human body is tough to model for terminal ballistics. Tissues of varying densities, voids, bone, and the path the projectile follows all have a significant effect on what, and how much, damage is caused. Depending on what gets hit and at what angle and velocity, different projectile shapes, metallurgy, and construction would be optimal in different circumstances. Fretting over what gives 10% better performance in ballistic gel is like worrying about whether a car can do a 4 second quarter mile vs 4.4 on a dry, straight, track with a perfect concrete surface from a dead stop. It doesn't say much about real-world performance on an actual road.

The only (near) constant in defensive shooting is effectiveness of good shot placement. So money is best spent on volumes of practice ammo, not a box or two of novelty "high performance" rounds.

 

[BurkeM]

The only (near) constant in defensive shooting is effectiveness of good shot placement. So money is best spent on volumes of practice ammo, not a box or two of novelty "high performance" rounds.

Absolutely true.