HORNADY - LOCK-N-LOAD AUTO PROGRESSIVE PRESS

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  • davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    newbie to reloading. 1st task will be to load longer range .223 for 2 & 3 gun matches out to 500yds. i've been using black hills blue box reloads with 69g smks but they no longer make reloaded ammo plus of course everything is out of stock. let's say 1k/year.

    2nd task would be basic 9mm for uspsa and 2 & 3 gun matches. let's say 2-3k/yr

    3rd would be for hunting ammo (7 stw, 300 wsm) let's say 1-200 rounds/year.

    4th would be for match prs ammo (6.5 creed, .308 and .224 valk) that i'd want as accurate (low SD) as possible. let's say 600 rounds/yr.

    is this loader good/bad/ugly for what i want? better choices?

    and yes i see that primers are OOS! sure powder is too but no idea what i need or want yet for that.

    i guess the big thing i want is that once i have settings set (seating depth, neck tension, case length, etc) i really want those locked in and never have to test/measure/change again. that's prob more a function of dies than press i guess?

    thanks!
     

    rob

    DINO Extraordinaire
    Oct 11, 2010
    3,099
    Augusta, GA
    I am in a similar situation. In our new house I will have a designated spot for gun stuff and I plan on getting started with reloading.

    What about dillon 550?

    Rob

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    I am in a similar situation. In our new house I will have a designated spot for gun stuff and I plan on getting started with reloading.

    What about dillon 550?

    Rob

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

    I got a Dillon 550, and have no complaints. I do find myself wishing I’d have gotten a 650 for the extra features. I can turn out good quantities of ammo.
     

    Spur

    Active Member
    May 1, 2011
    403
    Harford County
    Hornady -Lock-n-Load

    Been reloading for about 50 yrs. I have used both Hornady and Dillon. I had good use from both, but I wound up with Hornady Progressives. One set up for pistol, one for .223 rifle. Heavier rifle, I go to a turret or single stage. Hornady had excellant service, I literally rebuild one of the Progressives after 15 years of service,at no cost, with factory furnished parts. I have heard they are getting tighter about life time replacement of parts. Dillon was good, but the one I had required propritory dies, and I like RCBS dies. Either one requires care in set up and "fine tuning" to get them working smoothly. Either one should work fine. I always thought Dillon was a bit pricey on parts and accessories, just MHO.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    People are recommending the Dillon because it tends to have a better rep than the Hornady. I've never really seen someone say "the jump from the 650XL to the LnL progressive was a great decision"... I've seen the reverse over and over.

    Buy once, cry once. Dillon 650.
    Buy-once cry-once is an RL1100. Or maybe a Mark7 Evolution. Anything without on-press swaging is going to prove inadequate for bulk 223 loading (and by bulk, I mean 5k+).

    Unfortunately, use cases 1-2 and 3-4 really require different presses. 3gun ammo (9mm and 223) doesn't have huge accuracy requirements, and 223 and 9mm are both small primer (so you don't need to swap primer systems). This makes something like a 750 or 1100 very appealing.

    PRS ammo has far more substantial requirements in terms of powder charge and seating consistency, which is why everyone uses fancy powder dispensers for it (the CM Lite being the minimum). I would suggest that a progressive press is probably not going to work well for this.

    You could, in theory, load your hunting ammo on a progressive, but the cost of the base plate and case feeder changes, combined with really annoying primer feed switchovers does not make a progressive a practical option.

    The truth is, you could do pretty much everything you need to do with a Lee Classic Cast with the Inline Fab reverse ejector kit. You can crank out 223 and 9mm fairly quick with it, and caliber/primer system changes are MUCH less expensive than they would be on a 750 or LnL. I shoot ~7.5k-10k rounds of 9mm a year, so I outgrew mine to some extent, but I still use it for 223 and random other calibers.
     

    Speed3

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 19, 2011
    7,816
    MD
    I think a progressive would be fine for requirements 1-3 and part of 4. Depends on what is required for PRS stuff. 1/2 MOA gun or 1/4 MOA? You could do all the brass prep on the progressive and the seat the bullet on an arbor press. If you want to get really fancy, you can get a 21st century hydro press or a KM forcemeter press and use LE wilson dies. For the PRS stuff, don't forget to brush your necks...cheap way to improve consistent neck tension.

    In order to get super repeatable ES/SD(aka water line at distance), neck turning, annealing and a full length bushing die will likely become a necessary evil. The Hydro/force meter press is a nice to have but not a requirement. It lets you group your brass into lots of consistent seating pressures(neck tension) so that the string will be as consistent as possible.
     

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    thanks erwos et al! with any press, can you please help me understand what all is involved when i switch calibers? while i understand i will be switching "stuff" in and out (dies, etc), i really don't want to have to be re-measuring or re-setting anything (seating depth, neck tension, who know what else...) when switching over calibers. do the dies or anything else control that? do certain types (single, turret, progressive) or brands/models increase or decrease any re-measuring or re-setting between calibers?
     

    Todd S

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2012
    1,556
    Glen Rock, PA
    I've had a LNL for the last 10 years. Late winter this year, I decided to purchase an XL750. Both machines have their quirks. I will use the LNL for brass processing and the 750 for loading 9mm, 45, 38/357 and 5.56. For other rifle ammo, for precision, I still use my Rockchucker.
     

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    speed, erwos etc seem to be hinting that a progressive press doesn't have the exacting precision needed for PRS, is that right? is there some rule of thumb that if you want to get down below x MOA, to use a single stage? perhaps i'm just reading all this wrong... frankly i have enough factory match 6.5 and 224 valk for a couple of years of matches, so this is prob last on my list for reloading.
     

    Speed3

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 19, 2011
    7,816
    MD
    speed, erwos etc seem to be hinting that a progressive press doesn't have the exacting precision needed for PRS, is that right? is there some rule of thumb that if you want to get down below x MOA, to use a single stage? perhaps i'm just reading all this wrong... frankly i have enough factory match 6.5 and 224 valk for a couple of years of matches, so this is prob last on my list for reloading.

    I think you can get away with loading PRS stuff on a progressive, I'm sure others do it. If you are looking for the utmost accuracy, single stage likely the better choice. A progressive press would match or better a factory load.

    There are a few people on youtube that prep brass for fclass on a progressive, Fclass John and Eric Cortina are 2 that come to mind. Maybe take a look at what they suggest.

    I only use a single stage press, I'm not much help on a progressive.
     

    Rockzilla

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 6, 2010
    4,516
    55.751244 / 37.618423
    The Debate saga continues..
    They all work....
    They all need "tweaks"
    They all need "fine tuning"
    They all have their "followers"
    They all have the "Liker's and Hater's"
    They all have their "Pro's and Con's
    Once again "setup and tuned correctly" they all work

    Dillon has "tool heads" so figure in cost of the "tool head" if you choose
    to go that route.
    Hornady LNL-AP has a "bushing" setup, place the dies in the "bushing"
    insert it in the press, done

    So if cost is the variable add all the options. Find someone who is willing
    to let you "pull the handle" then you decide

    Once again they "all work" It don't matter if it's Blue, Dark Blue, Red, Pink,
    Purple or Rust Colored or "glows" in the dark.Nor does the name matter..

    Got many presses, Stars, CH Champs, Dillons, Hornady Pro 7's, Hornady
    Projectors, Hornady LNL-AP's as progressives, they all have a function.
    They all work for my needs. It all boils down to what you plan on reloading
    and what your purpose is whether it be 3-Gun, other matches, then the volume
    you plan on reloading. If funds were unlimited it would be the Camdex setup's.

    -Rock
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    I think you can get away with loading PRS stuff on a progressive, I'm sure others do it. If you are looking for the utmost accuracy, single stage likely the better choice. A progressive press would match or better a factory load.
    Press-mounted powder measures generally don't have the sort of accuracy people want for precision work. I'm not saying you couldn't make a progressive work for PRS, people clearly do, but it's not going to be anywhere near as fast as cranking out blaster grade 223 if you're weighing individual charges. Some guys load their training ammo fully on a progressive and then do their match ammo with individually weighed charges, which I think is a workable solution.
     

    Rockzilla

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 6, 2010
    4,516
    55.751244 / 37.618423
    Press-mounted powder measures generally don't have the sort of accuracy people want for precision work. I'm not saying you couldn't make a progressive work for PRS, people clearly do, but it's not going to be anywhere near as fast as cranking out blaster grade 223 if you're weighing individual charges. Some guys load their training ammo fully on a progressive and then do their match ammo with individually weighed charges, which I think is a workable solution.

    True, some people do just that, guess "each to their own" if it works send
    it. All the PRS or Target stuff is on a Single Stage, but that's my choice..
    most of my "target" 45acp is on the Old Star press. Had custom bushing
    and charge bar made for it. That's another whole ball game..


    -Rock
     

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    so it's the powder measurement/delivery on progressives that's the limiting factor on accuracy, not seating depth or any other variables?
     

    snake-eye

    Active Member
    Jan 27, 2015
    167
    MD
    I have two Hornady LNL's. My friends all have Dillon press' mostly 650. They are both great progressive press'. I prefer the Hornady because its simpler to set up and use, IMHO.
    I also use Lee Auto disk powder measures with powder thru dies. I am amazed as to how accurate and consistent they are. Depending on the type of powder, I get less than .1 grain deviation and most of the time its always on the money.
     
    Last edited:

    Rockzilla

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 6, 2010
    4,516
    55.751244 / 37.618423
    so it's the powder measurement/delivery on progressives that's the limiting factor on accuracy, not seating depth or any other variables?

    Powder Measures and metering
    Depending on what type of Powder and Powder measure.
    Ball powder
    Flattened Ball
    Flake Powder
    Stick Powder

    Now if we wish to carry it farther.
    Seating depth
    The tension between the case mouth and bullet
    Case...
    Primer...
    Concentricity, Bullet Alignment, and Accuracy
    Bullet type, BC ( G1 / G7 ) etc.
    And more....

    and how bad you wish to chase the smallest group, best Accuracy (hits) at long range

    -Rock
     

    Speed3

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 19, 2011
    7,816
    MD
    Technically you could run a progressive for the PRS stuff for all the sizing/prep for the brass. Pull it off and dump powder on an rcbs 1500/lite(autotrickler v3 if you want to be more accurate) and then seat the bullet back on the progressive right? Might be the easiest way to get around it.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    How much time do you have? I haven’t used progressives enough to make a recommendation.

    I do have a lee T-mag press. Something like that might be your best bet. It saves time. Especially in caliber swaps if you don’t mind a bit of expense in turrets. Though they aren’t particularly expensive. Allows you to leave your does setup and just swap turrets. I haven’t seen an issue in repeatability of COAL in swapping around the turret. I still double check the first couple of rounds every time I load a batch.

    For pistol I can batch 100 rounds with about 90 minutes total work once they are dumped out of the tumbler. I could cut maybe 10 minutes off that if my auto primer feed worked reliably on my press. But it is kind of hit or miss, so I hand prime in front of the TV.

    If I want to load up a lot, it would save time per round as there is a fair amount of double checking, getting the powder measure dialed in, etc.

    If I wanted to do 500 rounds I could probably slim that down to maybe 4 hours of work if it went smoothly. Possibly 5. That’s for straight wall pistol cartridges mind you. Rifles that don’t need to be resized only a bit longer because of lubing them and allowing it to dry. 5 probably, maybe 6 for 500 of .223.

    If trimming is needed, At least with my manual trimmer and separate chamfer and debur I can maybe do 2 rounds in a minute. So that pile of .223 is more like 10 hours for 500 rounds.

    4K rounds a year all up would be around 80hrs. Quite a lot of time.

    My limited experience with progressives for pistols can easily crank out 12 rounds a minute when it is running right. Rifle call it 10 a minute (factoring in some lube time). I am sure some people can work it faster than I can. Any given batch is going to require some up front prep and verify time so maybe figure add 10 minutes to any batch, no matter the size. Probably want to double check every few hundred rounds for COAL and pull a bullet or two and double check it is dropping the right powder charge still. So add maybe 5 minutes every 200-300 rounds (dunno. Maybe some people check less often).

    Back to case prep though with rifle, going to add a lot of time. I haven’t reloaded cases often enough to know for a fact, but at least factory, I had 2 in 30 need to be trimmed to length on a first reload as an example. I’ve reloaded a few twice fired and my rate of needing to resize was around 25%. I’d guess it is going to be the rest needing to be resized on a thrice firing.
     

    Song Dog

    Active Member
    Jan 2, 2013
    368
    Eastern Shore -Delmarva
    I'm been a Hornady Fan for years; Lock Load Classic single stage press rifle and LNL AP for pistol and easy set up to pop in rifle dies on LNL AP press. The base of LNL AP larger to fit your hands on the base plate when needed and back support arm at an angle as so much easier to verify powder has dropped into the cases (pistol) than the Dillion presses. I already had pistol carbide dies for handgun so didn't need a extra "tool heads" like you would for a Dillon so just drop the dies into top head and twist. I do like LNL AP can use 5 die sets including the powder dropper which works very accurately. Dillon users brag about Dillon customer service well Hornady is their equal while Hornady LNL AP built like a tank, same color a MAGA Red not like Dillon Biden Blue.
     

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