riot shootings in wisconsin

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  • ehall

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Mar 19, 2020
    40
    ICYMI, a car lot in Kenosha was attacked by rioters, and one of the family members shot one of the rioters in the head while he was running through the lot. I am trying to determine how screwed the shooter is.

    As I read it, using force to protect property is legal, but cannot be the sole justifcation:

    939.49  Defense of property and protection against retail theft.
    (1)  A person is privileged to threaten or intentionally use force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating what the person reasonably believes to be an unlawful interference with the person's property. Only such degree of force or threat thereof may intentionally be used as the actor reasonably believes is necessary to prevent or terminate the interference. It is not reasonable to intentionally use force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm for the sole purpose of defense of one's property.

    Anybody seen any good analysis yet?
     

    namrelio

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 14, 2013
    4,372
    Frederick Co. Virginia
    ICYMI, a car lot in Kenosha was attacked by rioters, and one of the family members shot one of the rioters in the head while he was running through the lot. I am trying to determine how screwed the shooter is.

    As I read it, using force to protect property is legal, but cannot be the sole justifcation:

    939.49  Defense of property and protection against retail theft.


    Anybody seen any good analysis yet?

    Maybe good that newer posters can discuss it.
     

    Alea Jacta Est

    Extinguished member
    MDS Supporter
    Shit... I think my meaningful posts only number about a dozen...

    OP, this is a great subject and of interest to many in our community. You picked a good one.

    Before long you’ll have access to a section where this discussion and others like it are ongoing. Hell, some of the discussions are not only legitimate, they bring better understanding to those involved.

    Welcome. You’ll be wading in deeper water before you know it.
     

    gremlin42

    Active Member
    Apr 16, 2020
    696
    variable
    What I’ve gathered, from that wc thread and other sources and vids - kid chased by first guy who threw what may have been an unlit molotov cocktail at him, kid turns and shoots him in head, sticks around for a minute before realizing the mob is coming for him, he flees, trips, two guys get on top of him, one swinging a skateboard at him, kid shoots and kills skateboard guy and other guy takes off, guy with a handgun comes at kid who is still on the ground, kid blasts an apple sized chunk of tissue out of that guy’s gun arm.

    Unclear how the confrontation started that led to the kid being chased but seems like idiots all
    around. Afaik the fact that he’s 17 renders a lot of the other stuff moot bc he was too young to open carry. Others may have a better summary or may correct some of the above.

    If you’re carrying a gun every confrontation is a potential gunfight. This kid just learned the hard way.
     

    ehall

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Mar 19, 2020
    40
    Okay cool. If anybody has any interesting outside links to share in the meantime I would like to read them
     

    Mike

    Propietario de casa, Toluca, México
    MDS Supporter
    Lesson #1 - Don't drive miles to put yourself into a situation like this. Especially if you can't legally own a gun! This kid is going to get the book thrown at him because the claim will be some sort of premeditation for going TO the problem with a gun and intent to harm.

    Lesson #2 - Don't stand your ground on someone else's property where you have no right to be. We might see charges called against the whole group of people that came in to "defend" this property, especially if one was an organizer.

    Lesson #3 - Don't run down the middle of the road fleeing the crime. Call the cops and get somewhere you can hide. This is important for anyone who is ever in this situation. If someone witnessed this kid popping off rounds in the street even a "good guy with a gun" couldn't distinguish him from a "bad guy with a gun". The kid is lucky that someone else (apparently there were lots of ARs around) didn't drop him thinking he was a crazed lunatic.

    Lesson #4 - Remains to be seen but if you put yourself into these situations, nothing good will come of them. Whether this kid is guilty of murder in any degree or just defending himself, if he stayed home and played video games he would be alive.

    Lesson #5 - The Cops aren't going to help anyone in the cities anymore. They can't distinguish who is good, who is bad, who killed who and they sure as hell aren't going to open fire unless they are defending themselves personally.

    Lesson #6 - Brandishing a firearm might make you feel like more of a man but in real life it's only going to escalate the situation. CCW and only present should your life be in danger.

    I fear that this is only the beginning of things like this happening.

    This is absolutely going to be used by the anti-gun crowd as the poster reason that civilians shouldn't have AR15s.

    I hope that this is a wake up call that proves to everyone that lawmakers, police, politicians, citizens, etc can't let violence persist night after night. For Gods sake...parents keep your guns locked up and your kids at home!

    Just a couple of random peaceful protestors.
    attachment.php

    Shoulda stuck to the half pipes with that skateboard.
    attachment.php

    Here's the interesting thing that I see in watching these videos now several times; I see that both the people guarding the gas station and the black men there seem to be more or less dialoging and trying to pull some of the more hot headed people back.

    It's mostly going well other then he-who-leaks-from-head and halfpipe who seem to keep moving forward and provoking things.



    Here are 2 of the videos that keeps getting deleted, same guy, look at the shoes, shirt and shorts.





    Okay cool. If anybody has any interesting outside links to share in the meantime I would like to read them

    Here are all the shots. They are all justified uses of force against members of a violent mob actively attacking him. The most obvious use of force is against the "medic" that ran to him with a pistol to try to execute him.

    Here's a video timeline in chronological order.
    timeline...

    Before headshot shooting- ARman is being chased by rioters screaming threats at him. The guy that is capped in the head is chasing him, throws something at him, then charges him.
    https://twitter.com/MarketingBoon/status/1298559646886760450

    headshot shooting
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298485918303580162

    Here's the bridge between the headshot and the street shooting
    https://twitter.com/MarkDice/status/1298487399995936770

    And videos of the shooting in the street.
    Approach and shots
    https://twitter.com/selfdeclaredref/status/1298489882566955009
    Trip and shots
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298485570277015552
    trip, shots, and police arriving

    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809
    How long before the leftist dead and wounded find their names on a hashtag/shirt/sign?



    Maybe these can be seen here. Hurry before the leftists at YT remove them (again).
     

    jokie

    Active Member
    May 27, 2020
    360
    A in AA
    Thanks for all who posted links. I'm in the same boat as the OP. I only have access to this thread. Reading posts and watching the linked videos gives me a better idea of the situation and lessons learned. This is one of the reasons I joined the MS community.
     

    ehall

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Mar 19, 2020
    40
    Maybe these can be seen here. Hurry before the leftists at YT remove them (again).
    Pretty sure that the guy who got headshot was the loudmouth in the long denim shorts that kept saying "shoot me ni***" Guess he decided to FAFO

    Poor decision making by the shooter kid, and whoever decided to bring him along, to put himself in that situation
     

    gremlin42

    Active Member
    Apr 16, 2020
    696
    variable
    One of the things I *hope* people are deducing from this is why we have police, and why there’s a concept of a state monopoly on violence. If nobody’s representing the general public it’s just armed factions on the street against each other and everyone thinks they’re in the right. Not saying I don’t empathize with this kid, especially since my Dad was a store owner and the “but it’s just property not lives” people infuriate me (assuming it’s correct that he was there to help protect businesses from looting). In general it seems like the armed people protecting businesses have been successful in these situations but it takes a level head and you can’t go wandering around and getting into arguments with idiots.
     

    wabbit

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 29, 2010
    5,205
    Not saying I don’t empathize with this kid, especially since my Dad was a store owner and the “but it’s just property not lives” people infuriate me (assuming it’s correct that he was there to help protect businesses from looting). In general it seems like the armed people protecting businesses have been successful in these situations but it takes a level head and you can’t go wandering around and getting into arguments with idiots.

    This is one of the biggest spin put out by the antifa anarchists and BLM. The AR guy took the shot to defend himself while being attacked. He didn't shoot to protect property. Most Americans are too ignorant to know the difference and will blindly believe the BS put out by Soros' groups. From the available videos, all the shots were in self defense, not to protect property.
     

    gremlin42

    Active Member
    Apr 16, 2020
    696
    variable
    This is one of the biggest spin put out by the antifa anarchists and BLM. The AR guy took the shot to defend himself while being attacked. He didn't shoot to protect property. Most Americans are too ignorant to know the difference and will blindly believe the BS put out by Soros' groups. From the available videos, all the shots were in self defense, not to protect property.

    I’m sure in the moment it was self defense but it’s unclear to me how he got into that situation. There were certainly videos of him walking around in the street beforehand. I don’t have enough information yet to know if and how he might have contributed to escalating the situation. At any rate I can’t get behind a 17 year old driving to another town and open carrying in a riot. Was he connected to the owner of the dealership?
     

    ehall

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Mar 19, 2020
    40
    This is one of the biggest spin put out by the antifa anarchists and BLM. The AR guy took the shot to defend himself while being attacked. He didn't shoot to protect property. Most Americans are too ignorant to know the difference and will blindly believe the BS put out by Soros' groups. From the available videos, all the shots were in self defense, not to protect property.
    His group gave interview earlier saying they were there to defend property, so its a natural conclusion to make.

    It wasn't until digging that it became obvious he was later separated from his group and fired in self-defense.
     

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