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  • davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    not a fan of the shottie for HD. despite myth, you can somewhat easily miss with a shotgun, esp at closer ranges. just hit a 3 gun match and you'll see... next is, with a long barrel there is more out there for a bad guy to grab, and it's unwieldy going around corners etc. and of course the kick, esp for smaller statured folks. then of course, limited mag capacity and pretty hard to reload.

    i actually think a pistol caliber carbine (pcc) in 9mm is an ideal HD firearm. you hold it with both hands and into your shoulder so it's pretty steady. not nearly as unwieldy as a shottie. almost no recoil. huge mag capacity.

    that said, i have a bedside glock 31 for hd. small form factor.

    but there's a reason PCC's are normally at the top of competitions, pretty easy to shoot fast & accurately. even folks with limited firearms experience can pick up a pcc and do pretty good with it.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    The early consensus and Grimmar15's post are not in conflict .

    I stand by my assertions that a 12ga is the best for total multi tasking for absolutely everything . Best gun for specific HD , and best HD gun for non shooters are two separate discussions in themselves .
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    22,156
    For the family? 20 guage shotgun.

    It can be shot from your youngest children to you, including the wife and mother in law.

    And it shoots buckshot also.

    A 12 gauge pump if everyone can handle it. If some have trouble with the recoil then a 20 gauge is easier for the small statured to handle. For home defense don't get a long barrel and remove the magazine plug. And get everyone who might have to use it familiar with it and get them plenty of practice at the range with periodic refresher trips.

    There is a reason why the "fowling piece" has been the go to gun for centuries, it can defend the home, put meat on the table, ride shotgun on the stage coach, repel boarders and sweep the trenches.
     

    JamesDong

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 13, 2020
    3,260
    Duffield, Va
    I am going to get scorched for saying this, but, if you and your family do not train with a 12 Gauge shotgun, then it’s no good to you. It’s a big heavy weapon that packs a serious punch. The manual of arms requires a lot of muscle memory and under stress that can be a real disadvantage and even intimidating to the untrained.

    Practice practice practice, as I said there are SEVERAL best first. I have a 44 Mag Ruger Redhawk in my nightstand. 12 ga 870 on the bedroom ready rack, 12 Ga SXS coach at back door, SKS at front door, Mod 70 06 at basement door and a 380 in my pocket. Is the SKS,06 and 380 a good first, probably not but I listed a couple that are ready. I probably have as good a chance of a rabid coyote trying to break in than any poor bastard in Maryland that might have a democrat looking for cash so ........... it is what it is.
    All my kids have left the nest so it's just the two of us and I'm not worried about a empty chamber.
     

    Tungsten

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 1, 2012
    7,231
    Elkridge, Leftistan
    not a fan of the shottie for HD. despite myth, you can somewhat easily miss with a shotgun, esp at closer ranges. just hit a 3 gun match and you'll see... next is, with a long barrel there is more out there for a bad guy to grab, and it's unwieldy going around corners etc. and of course the kick, esp for smaller statured folks. then of course, limited mag capacity and pretty hard to reload.

    i actually think a pistol caliber carbine (pcc) in 9mm is an ideal HD firearm. you hold it with both hands and into your shoulder so it's pretty steady. not nearly as unwieldy as a shottie. almost no recoil. huge mag capacity.

    that said, i have a bedside glock 31 for hd. small form factor.

    but there's a reason PCC's are normally at the top of competitions, pretty easy to shoot fast & accurately. even folks with limited firearms experience can pick up a pcc and do pretty good with it.

    I agree completely. 9mm PCC is the best. Low recoil. Easy to aim. Great magazine capacity. Should be easy for the entire family to master as opposed to a shotgun that most of the family won't want to shoot, short stroking is always a factor, follow-up shots are slow....
     

    Darkemp

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 18, 2009
    7,808
    Marylandistan
    not a fan of the shottie for HD. despite myth, you can somewhat easily miss with a shotgun, esp at closer ranges. just hit a 3 gun match and you'll see... next is, with a long barrel there is more out there for a bad guy to grab, and it's unwieldy going around corners etc. and of course the kick, esp for smaller statured folks. then of course, limited mag capacity and pretty hard to reload.

    i actually think a pistol caliber carbine (pcc) in 9mm is an ideal HD firearm. you hold it with both hands and into your shoulder so it's pretty steady. not nearly as unwieldy as a shottie. almost no recoil. huge mag capacity.

    that said, i have a bedside glock 31 for hd. small form factor.

    but there's a reason PCC's are normally at the top of competitions, pretty easy to shoot fast & accurately. even folks with limited firearms experience can pick up a pcc and do pretty good with it.


    I agree on the PCC as a superior all around option for a newer shooter, they are easy to learn without the recoil, size, and simplified reloading factors. My favorite is the Kel-Tec Sub2K in 9mm taking Glock mags interchangeable with my other defensive handguns of choice including the 33rd Glock manufactured sticks, but there are other great carbine options as well that I’m sure others will share.
     

    Sirex

    Powered by natural gas
    Oct 30, 2010
    10,380
    Westminster, MD
    Is the 12 gauge pump shotgun the best firearm to recommend to a family for home protection?

    I think a shotgun is a quite versatile tool/weapon. My first firearm was a shotgun, but they aren't for everyone. So, when you mean "family firearm" do you mean for you to protect your family, or one they will all be tasked with learning and using? My wife doesn't like my 12G, so, I bought her a 410 shotgun, and then a pistol, and a rifle. In my personal opinion, there isn't a perfect weapon for everyone. Right now is a difficult time to buy a gun and stock ammo unfortunately. As some have suggested, a pistol caliber carbine is a good choice. My daughter has no problem shooting a 9mm rifle, but now, finding the ammo could be tricky, or expensive. Same with 12G shells suitable for defense, or 5.56mm ammo for an AR15. But, my go to home defense combo is my 12G shotgun, which I could also swap barrels out with to use for other purposes.

    I am also near New Windsor, welcome to the site.
     

    Overwatch326

    Active Member
    Aug 13, 2016
    365
    Is the 12 gauge pump shotgun the best firearm to recommend to a family for home protection?

    A 12 gauge pump-action is pretty much the go-to for home defense across the country. A shotgun is an incredibly versatile weapon for home defense, hunting, target shooting, trap & skeet, you name it. I own one for home defense, myself, and it was the second gun I ever bought.

    However, it's no better than a club if you don't take it out and shoot it; particularly with pump-actions, you need to train yourself to work the action as you fire, while staying on target--Yes, you can miss; the gun store clerk who tells you it's impossible is lying.

    Before you buy, I would recommend trying out a friend's or MDS Member's, or rent one at the range, just so you can feel the recoil for yourself; I'm a big guy, 6'1", and after 25 slugs, even my shoulder starts to hurt. So, I would suggest you try it first, see if you can handle the recoil; if you think it's a lot, consider any family member who might also need to use it.

    Keep in mind, however, that slugs (which are all most ranges will let you shoot, unless you're shooting trap or skeet) have a high powder charge in order to project that 1 Oz of lead, so you'll be training at essentially the maximum recoil. You should also consider shell length; the typical length for 12 gauge is 2-3/4", but shells can range from 1-3/4" minishells all the way up to 3-1/2" magnum shells. If a 12 gauge is fine for you, but a little too much for a family member, try swapping to minishells; you get a slightly smaller payload, in exchange for less recoil and potentially more shots, depending on magazine size. I wouldn't recommend anything over 2-3/4", as price tends to increase with chamber size. You might also consider adding a slip-on recoil pad, but this will add to the length of the shotgun.

    Maybe also consider a youth or bullpup model, as well, if you or anyone who might use it are of shorter stature. Youth models typically have inserts so you can adjust the length of pull (distance between the trigger and butt), so you could potentially find a good middle ground that works for everyone. Bullpups typically are more expensive when American-made, but work well for men and women alike. Kel-Tec offers the KSG and KS7 in 12 gauge, and Black Aces Tactical offers the Pro Series Bullpup in pump-action or semi-auto.

    If 12's still too much, there's no shame in going with a 20 gauge instead; it's comparable in power and versatility, but with less punishing recoil. However, there's often less aftermarket parts available for 20s, compared to 12s; your best bet for a 20 would likely be a Mossberg or Remington, though the Stevens 320 is a reliable platform at budget prices, too.

    Another middle ground would be a 16 gauge, but you'll likely have to find an older pump chambered in it; Tristar offers the semi-auto Viper G2 in 16 gauge, however. Again, though, that means less aftermarket options. The benefit to 16 is a slightly larger load than 20, and the ammo is fairly easy to find at prices comparable to 12 and 20, and is typically ignored in times of panic-buying.

    I'm by no means an expert, but I hope this helps! Keep in mind, you're probably not gonna find a single gun that works for everyone, and you may decide to go a completely different route like a PCC, handgun, or AR instead. The key isn't the type or caliber, but what you're proficient, accurate, and effective with.
     

    Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    Guns are tools... and different jobs require different tools to do them properly. That being said, a 12 ga pump is a very good Swiss Army Knife tool. It can do a lot of things and perhaps is one of the most versatile choices out there. There are probably better tools for most specific jobs... but it will do a lot of them reasonably well, within limitations.

    As others have said, if this is for family use, make sure that everyone can handle a 12 ga. Smaller frame folks may do better with a 20.
     

    cstone

    Active Member
    Dec 12, 2018
    842
    Baltimore, MD
    "The best" is the one you have, and know how to use, when you absolutely need it.

    What firearms do you have? Which firearms do you have experience with? What abilities and desires do your family members have when it comes to self-defense?

    It is quite possible that there are several "best" firearms for your family's self-defense. As almost any firearm source will state, every collection begins with a handgun, rifle (carbine), and shotgun. Caliber or gauge are personal preferences. 9mm seems to be the ubiquitous choice for handguns, but there are lots of good choices. 5.56/.223 is probably the most common and easy to shoot when it comes to rifles. 12 or 20 gauge are both perfectly acceptable with good buckshot loads. 12 gauge is usually easier to find but can cause problems for recoil averse shooters.

    Pump shotguns are good choices, and having a few available is a good thing. I would suggest that you consider looking for a good single shot, break action, or even a double, break action. Over under or coach gun would serve your purpose. Even with a single, backed up with a handgun would accomplish most home based self-defense situations. Most (not all) bad guys won't wait around for a second round after having survived a first shotgun round. Given the circumstances, you can easily reload, with some practice, or draw your handgun for anyone curious enough to see what comes after the first round.

    I like having a PCC based on the AR platform. If you already have experience with the AR, having a carbine that takes magazines from your normal carry handgun, makes the use of both your PCC, and handgun even more effective.

    Don't forget edged weapons. Whether you regularly carry a small folder or have a fighting knife in your nightstand, knives never run out of ammunition, cost much less than most firearms, and often have more psychological impact than any other weapon.

    Keep your cell phone charged and handy. Your clear headed thinking and having ideas on how to handle various scenarios, IMO, are "the best" weapons you will ever have.

    Be safe.
     

    Lowerguk

    Member
    Sep 26, 2020
    93
    Carroll County
    I always recommend the Remington 870 Pump 12ga magnum combo kit with the bird shot barrel and rifled barrel as a first gun. In the express finish.

    The express finish is super low maintenance
    Pump is a lot easiest to maintain that semi auto
    You can use this gun for home defense
    You can shoot light loads in it for skeet or birds
    You can shoot magnum loads in it for geese,etc
    You can hunt deer with it
    It’s not a regulated firearm like a handgun

    To me it’s the best all around gun there is.
     

    Mega

    Wolverine
    Feb 18, 2009
    1,206
    Lewes, DE
    My first one was an Ithaca carbine break, single-shot 12 ga at about 14 years old or so. Hunted rabbits with that one.
    Sold the Ithaca for a Mossberg 590 pump.
    Sold that one for my current Mossberg 930 autoloader that came with 2 barrels. An 18" for HD and a 28 for clays.
    I really like the autoloader.
     

    Qbeam

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 16, 2008
    6,074
    Georgia
    BDA,

    Who will be using it? If it is for you and the significant other, you may want to go to the range and try before you buy. If all family members are ok with it, practice, practice, practice.

    The saying "The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in combat" comes to mind.

    I was never in the military, but the premise is sound.


    Q
     

    kege1

    Member
    Oct 26, 2012
    9
    12-20 gage shotgun loaded with BIRDSHOT/TARGET load. ALL home defense scenarios happen in 15-25 feet.; 00 and slugs are so much overkill. At 25 feet BIRDSHOT/TARGET load are more than enough to get the job done. I prefer a semiauto, however a pump action has it's advantages because everyone speaks ShotGun "SCHIK/SCHIK
     

    jimbobborg

    Oddball caliber fan
    Aug 2, 2010
    17,112
    Northern Virginia
    No, absolutely no to a pump shotgun. Too heavy, too long, ammunition is huge per round, recoil is horrible, it's manually operated, and it's the last gun I'd pick to give to a beginner. I've seen too many people short stroke a pump gun while under pressure to recommend it to a beginner or even intermediate shooter. Get a PCC and magazines. People actually enjoy shooting them, which ensures that they will practice with them. Get one that uses common magazine (Glock) and you have a winner.
     

    Lucca1

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 9, 2013
    1,002
    Behind Enemy Lines
    12-20 gage shotgun loaded with BIRDSHOT/TARGET load. ALL home defense scenarios happen in 15-25 feet.; 00 and slugs are so much overkill. At 25 feet BIRDSHOT/TARGET load are more than enough to get the job done. I prefer a semiauto, however a pump action has it's advantages because everyone speaks ShotGun "SCHIK/SCHIK

    Birdshot is for birds and other small game. It has been proven time and time again that birdshot lacks the mass required to consistently penetrate deep enough to cause disruption to internal organs. Add winter clothing to the mix and penetration is further reduced.

    Would birdshot stop an attacker? Perhaps, but I'm not going to risk my life to find out.
     

    Dovk0802

    Active Member
    Sep 20, 2017
    255
    DC
    I too vote for the carbine choice; smaller, lighter, easier & cheaper. Anyone can learn to run a shotgun; you can do it in half the time and don't need to be a masochist if you're learning on a carbine. Ideally for a dedicated HD gun, I'd encourage having an optic and a light; which can be done with a shotgun but is usually easier & cheaper with a carbine. And as with any firearm, the first consideration is appropriate storage.
     

    SkiPatrolDude

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 24, 2017
    3,331
    Timonium-Lutherville
    In my opinion, a pump action 12 gauge is one of the best "if you can only have one" firearms. But best for home defense? That is a highly subjective topic.

    The above poster, jimbobborg, is right. Under stress, the probability of short stroking (especially as a beginner) is high. Recoil is also high.

    Where I disagree is with the PCC recommendation. There is a reason that the submachine gun has been going to the wayside. In use, 9mm has been shown to over penetrate to a greater degree when compared to most .223/5.56 loads. Most law enforcement and CQB/entry teams have switched to short barreled AR's for this reason, not to mention the massive advantage gained to the tune of 3-4x the amount of energy into the target with the 5.56. 300blk AR's have made their debut as well, although ammo prices for 300 and general availability has kept me away from it, personally. Also, with the current state of things, defensive 9mm ammo (hollow points) are astronomically expensive, and far surpass the price of 5.56. M193 at bad breath distances is devastating.

    Also, a PCC that is direct blowback offers no advantages in handling over an AR. Recoil is the same if not worse. The exception here is if your PCC is something like an MPX or an MP5 which are not blowback operated.

    For these reasons, I choose an AR in 5.56/.223 loaded with either 62gr softpoint or 77gr OTM. Recoil is minimal, the learning curve is small, and with a red dot and flashlight, putting hits on target is very easy.

    Disadvantages to the AR is that they are very loud, distinctly louder than any pistol caliber. If you need to use lethal force, however, you are likely not that concerned with this. My HD AR is run dedicated suppressed for this reason, but at a pretty substantial investment.
     

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