Ammo prices.

lazarus said:

If it was bought in December, try like $14-20.

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Why December?


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bigmancrisler said:

Why December?


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Referring to Walmart clearing out their ammo. Regardless of how much he bought it for, if there’s a buyer it will sell, if he’s too high the market will determine that and inventory will sit. I certainly don’t sell for what I paid.

bigmancrisler said:

Why December?


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Virtue signaling closeouts on certain "evil" ammo.

Uncle Duke said:

Virtue signaling closeouts on certain "evil" ammo.

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Ahhh


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Ammo Jon said:

Referring to Walmart clearing out their ammo. Regardless of how much he bought it for, if there’s a buyer it will sell, if he’s too high the market will determine that and inventory will sit. I certainly don’t sell for what I paid.

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Don’t think anyone should do that.

It’s not necessarily the middleman that might be an issue, but I do think price gouging is wrong. At least on necessary things (gas, food, water, etc). Ammo makers raw materials costs didn’t suddenly go through the roof so all the various down stream prices shouldn’t have.

Don’t have an issue with pricing in some supply and demand. But prices going up >3x what they were a few months ago...

But if everyone jacks their price through the entire supply chain, then it goes sky high and it isn’t just the final retailer to blame.

Not like “oh gods Ayn Rand in the house!”

But it does bother me.

bigmancrisler said:

I also want to get into reloading, any advice for a beginner?


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Hit the reloading section and read all the "sticky" threads at the top about reloading. The brass trade thread can come later, once you start getting into reloading.

DaemonAssassin said:

Hit the reloading section and read all the "sticky" threads at the top about reloading. The brass trade thread can come later, once you start getting into reloading.

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Thanks I’ll read through it!


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lazarus said:

Don’t think anyone should do that.

It’s not necessarily the middleman that might be an issue, but I do think price gouging is wrong. At least on necessary things (gas, food, water, etc). Ammo makers raw materials costs didn’t suddenly go through the roof so all the various down stream prices shouldn’t have.

Don’t have an issue with pricing in some supply and demand. But prices going up >3x what they were a few months ago...

But if everyone jacks their price through the entire supply chain, then it goes sky high and it isn’t just the final retailer to blame.

Not like “oh gods Ayn Rand in the house!”

But it does bother me.

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Who gets to decide what "pricing in some supply & demand" works out to be?

Either a market is allowed to move freely or you can deal with rationing. I, like everyone here, don't like the current state of the ammo market, but I really don't like commie economics.

As many have pointed-out, cycles in this particular market have existed for decades. Businesses who treat their customers fairly under adverse conditions are well remembered and when the market turns those inclined to gouge their customers suffer.

lazarus said:

Don’t think anyone should do that.

It’s not necessarily the middleman that might be an issue, but I do think price gouging is wrong. At least on necessary things (gas, food, water, etc). Ammo makers raw materials costs didn’t suddenly go through the roof so all the various down stream prices shouldn’t have.

Don’t have an issue with pricing in some supply and demand. But prices going up >3x what they were a few months ago...

But if everyone jacks their price through the entire supply chain, then it goes sky high and it isn’t just the final retailer to blame.

Not like “oh gods Ayn Rand in the house!”

But it does bother me.

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I'll remember that the next time you're selling something.
I will only pay what you paid for it, maybe. The economics you speak of is Communism. So you can never make a profit on anything you own? Your house? Your 401k? Your guns?

That a ridiculous ideology not compatible with our free enterprise system, sorry. If you put a 50 ct. box of brass 9MM on GB, the market will determine its value. And right now that's about 4x what I paid for it from WM during their purge. Anybody wants some of it, theres the starting point. YOU dont get to decide my "profit".

Demand is greater than supply right now. With totally natural consequence.

Bisleyfan44 said:

I'll remember that the next time you're selling something.
I will only pay what you paid for it, maybe. The economics you speak of is Communism. So you can never make a profit on anything you own? Your house? Your 401k? Your guns?

That a ridiculous ideology not compatible with our free enterprise system, sorry. If you put a 50 ct. box of brass 9MM on GB, the market will determine its value. And right now that's about 4x what I paid for it from WM during their purge. Anybody wants some of it, theres the starting point. YOU dont get to decide my "profit".

Demand is greater than supply right now. With totally natural consequence.

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I didn’t say you should only pay exactly what someone else paid for something. What I said was I have an issue with gouging. If you bought it for $10 and want to charge 10, 11, 12, what have you. I don’t see an issue with that. Hell, you want to charge $10,000 more power to you. When a good is necessary and supply is severely constrained, than I do have an issue if you paid $10 for something and you decide to charge $100. Because you’ll find plenty of desperate people to buy it.

Real supply and demand economics doesn’t work the more something is necessary, especially when supply may not necessarily be constrained. Did most of the guys who bought 5k rounds in March need that? Or would rationing have meant all the new people who needed guns and all of us who already had them still be paying pretty reasonable prices, we just would only be able to buy 5 boxes at a time?

If there is a hurricane and bottled water suddenly gets jacked up 1000%, is that reasonable fair economics? Or is it immoral gouging?

It’s why our medical system doesn’t work. If you need a heart bypass almost anyone will pay anything to get one. Some markets do not function properly with zero government oversight. Same with utility services.

Many can with zero or near zero regulation. But not all can.

If ammo isn’t a necessary good, then I don’t have an issue with someone jacking up the price 10x I’d supply is constrained. But gouging also generally only “works” for the seller for something that has inelastic demand because most (or enough) people consider it a necessary good.

I don’t have an issue with a governor stepping in after a disaster and saying for X period of times you can’t increase the price of necessary goods more than some amount or whatever.

Maybe that does make me a commie. Maybe it means I don’t want people who suddenly don’t have enough money to get forked over in a disaster or emergency. But societies with no government regulation also tend not to be functional countries. Just like those with TOO much government regulation. But any functional society needs at least a little bit.

Just ignore these price increases guys. It will come back down quicker if you don't contribute to the panic buying.

We were normalizing after COVID, but then the riots had to happen...

OLM-Medic said:

Just ignore these price increases guys. It will come back down quicker if you don't contribute to the panic buying.

We were normalizing after COVID, but then the riots had to happen...

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Wish I had your optimism. But with the elections coming up I don't see the prices coming back down for a long, long time.

Ovid said:

Wish I had your optimism. But with the elections coming up I don't see the prices coming back down for a long, long time.

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Exactly. Those that ignored reality and followed the pied pipers of ammo deals (Ie wait it out, buy from Cabelas/Bass Pro) are now paying double if not more. I guess there’s some that believe supply and demand is a social construct and if we all just agreed to stop buying today 9mm would plummet to .12 cpr but it’s not realistic. If we lose in 2020 we are completely screwed, if we win I still see 4-6 months before production and supply/demand level out.

Ammo Jon said:

Exactly. Those that ignored reality and followed the pied pipers of ammo deals (Ie wait it out, buy from Cabelas/Bass Pro) are now paying double if not more. I guess there’s some that believe supply and demand is a social construct and if we all just agreed to stop buying today 9mm would plummet to .12 cpr but it’s not realistic. If we lose in 2020 we are completely screwed, if we win I still see 4-6 months before production and supply/demand level out.

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Ammo Jon - do you (or anyone for that matter) have any insight as to why, with WalMart's huge amount of handgun ammo sales now out of the picture, there are shortages?

Are the manufacturers producing less?

Has panic buying in gun shops and online really soaked up the enormous inventory that used to move through WalMart?

So to add a twist to the equation. After Covid and the election what effect would requiring NICS checks or banning mail order ammo sale have? Would the demand go down along with prices ? Would sellers go away decreasing supply ? Any Thoughts

Price per round might go down in that case, but AFAIK NICS checks are not free so that cost would need to be added in as well.

Mr. B said:

Ammo Jon - do you (or anyone for that matter) have any insight as to why, with WalMart's huge amount of handgun ammo sales now out of the picture, there are shortages?

Are the manufacturers producing less?

Has panic buying in gun shops and online really soaked up the enormous inventory that used to move through WalMart?

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From what I heard Walmart was a huge buyer and they all had to adjust production to account for the loss of the business. I recall there being a few weeks of certain calibers being available and not others while they were figuring this out.

2020 hit and it’s been non stop buying since and only seemingly getting worse by the month. Regardless of the reason for the panic, in this case COVID and politicians threatening to let criminals out of prison to keep THEM safe (vs us safe), the pre planned rioting, election meddling by the DNC, etc.

There’s a lot of people buying/stocking up out of fear/the unknown and a lot of people that never cared about guns swallowing up everything available, flooding the ranges/stores and taking a crash course in gun ownership. A lot of liberals that ceased to be when they realized their safety is in the line.

EDA98 said:

Price per round might go down in that case, but AFAIK NICS checks are not free so that cost would need to be added in as well.

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If it’s a captive audience and everything had to go through an FFL I would expect prices to rise. The whole purpose (by the government) of background checks is to make it more difficult/more expensive and hopefully dissuade new gun owners. It’s a back door to gun control. “We can’t take away your guns but we can make it painful to own them.”

Ammo Jon said:

If it’s a captive audience and everything had to go through an FFL I would expect prices to rise. The whole purpose (by the government) of background checks is to make it more difficult/more expensive and hopefully dissuade new gun owners. It’s a back door to gun control. “We can’t take away your guns but we can make it painful to own them.”

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Another effect would be black market ammo. I'm not sure how distribution works but I do know it would be very difficult for .gov to read the serial numbers on brass and determine if it was sold thru an FFL with a NICS check.

jr88 said:

Another effect would be black market ammo. I'm not sure how distribution works but I do know it would be very difficult for .gov to read the serial numbers on brass and determine if it was sold thru an FFL with a NICS check.

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Wait what’s this about a NICS check for ammo??


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