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  • EDA98

    Active Member
    Dec 4, 2019
    121
    Laurel MD
    This sounds to me like “stream swatting” almost. I am not sure about anything legal wise, but I would certainly talk with a lawyer. If anything was broken during the search, or if you had to skip work or something, you might have a case.
     

    daNattyFatty

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 27, 2009
    3,908
    Bel Air, MD
    Never realized how insane the ERPO's were, up to 1 year plus a 6 month extension possible?! That's wild, makes my brain hurt. Is there any active effort to overturn the ERPO notion?

    Additionally...How is an ERPO order able to get a nightcapped warrant, while still requiring knock and announce rule? (refering to the pre dawn ERPO served where the dude got killed) ESpecially since its a civil matter not a criminal matter!?



    1) A respondent of an ERPO needs to sue. They’re the only one with standing. Presumably, there haven’t been any MDS members subjected to one.

    2) The Willis incident in AA County wasn’t a search warrant. It was just the service of the ERPO.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    mac1_131

    MSI Executive Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 31, 2009
    3,280
    If it was made in good faith, nothing you can do.

    If you can prove it was malicious, you might be able to do something but I suspect very hard to prove.
     

    MJD438

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2012
    5,849
    Somewhere in MD
    If it was made in good faith, nothing you can do.

    If you can prove it was malicious, you might be able to do something but I suspect very hard to prove.
    The wording in the bill was intentional.


    The charge of perjury is next to impossible to prove, if the Judiciary and State's Attorney even attempt to go after it.


    Couple that with the language in the bill that presupposes that all attempted ERPO filings are considered to be in "good faith" and we have a never enforceable tangled web of statute.


    ETA - when we brought these points up in testimony, in discussions with the other side, and with legislators in non-hearing spaces, we always heard the same thing - the prosecutors know bad deals when they happen and the judges will sort it out. Due process is "protected" since a hearing "will" happen sometime in the future.
     

    inkd

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 4, 2009
    7,512
    Ridge
    However if person A does not own or possess firearms and person B made a sworn statement that firearms are present then that is perjury. That isn’t good faith. One thing to misreport that someone appears to be a threat. That can of course be a lie, but hard to substantiate. U less person B claims person A was saying they have guns...

    How do you go about proving perjury? If person B swears person A had a gun at the time of the incident, that's all the police are going to care about. Unless person A had video of the incident, it's literally person B's word against person A's word.

    That is one of the this about this law that is so frightening.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    What MJD438 said . Unless the offending party spontaneously blurts out a confession in front of creditable witnesses , it is essentially impossible to disprove " I felt scared " .
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    Yup. But it does open the person making the complaint to possible charges of filing a false complaint. Those ERPO “safe haven”/good faith protections apply to the person applying for an ERPO.

    Even there, I’d think you’ve got more civil suit wiggle room against police if they take some neighbor at their word with zero evidence and go and get an ERPO without even bothering to talk to the respondent.

    This happens daily involving arrests. The police apply for warrants everyday based on someone's word without every talking to the suspect.

    I'd guess that an actual arrest is viewed higher than obtaining a ERPO based on someones word.
     

    Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    Theoretically speaking... if someone ERPOed you and you tell the nice officers to come back with a warrant... could you theoretically pack up your firearms and ammo and take them out of state before they returned? What would be the repercussions of that? Am I correct in guessing that you would probably be watched/tailed while the are applying for the warrant? Just wondering.
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    Theoretically speaking... if someone ERPOed you and you tell the nice officers to come back with a warrant... could you theoretically pack up your firearms and ammo and take them out of state before they returned? What would be the repercussions of that? Am I correct in guessing that you would probably be watched/tailed while the are applying for the warrant? Just wondering.

    If they have Probable Cause you are in possession of those firearms you are likely to be placed under arrest and they will go and get the warrant. It is kind of hard to move guns and ammo out of state when you are arrested.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,680
    Theoretically speaking... if someone ERPOed you and you tell the nice officers to come back with a warrant... could you theoretically pack up your firearms and ammo and take them out of state before they returned? What would be the repercussions of that? Am I correct in guessing that you would probably be watched/tailed while the are applying for the warrant? Just wondering.

    When you are served you are considered prohibited. So if you did do that, I’d imagine there are now a large number of crimes you can be charged under.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,680
    What MJD438 said . Unless the offending party spontaneously blurts out a confession in front of creditable witnesses , it is essentially impossible to disprove " I felt scared " .

    But not necessarily impossible to prove that they lied about knowing or believing you owned firearms. Not saying it isn’t a ridiculously hard bar to get over, but I wouldn’t consider it impossible. Just highly improbable. A civil suit would have less stringent requirement to show it was malicious. Though you’d still need some evidence. Like possibly showing there was significant bad blood with the neighbor who ERPO’d you being the offending party (as was mentioned early, evidence that they are the “bully” in this situation). Heck, maybe the neighbor bragged to another neighbor about “screwing him over by getting the cops to toss his place for guns. I got a great laugh out of it”.
     

    trailman

    Active Member
    Nov 15, 2011
    631
    Frederick
    Theoretically speaking... if someone ERPOed you and you tell the nice officers to come back with a warrant... could you theoretically pack up your firearms and ammo and take them out of state before they returned? What would be the repercussions of that? Am I correct in guessing that you would probably be watched/tailed while the are applying for the warrant? Just wondering.

    They can call or and print a warrant while you wait..
     

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