HB0004 Rifles and Shotguns - Secondary Transactions

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  • fidelity

    piled higher and deeper
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2012
    22,400
    Frederick County
    The Judicial Proceedings report (#14) with SB208 shown as Favorable with Amendments is on today's Senate 8pm agenda. I'll post up links to the amendment text when they are added (probably tomorrow or Wed) and the committee vote tally as well when that becomes available.
    Thank you for these updates
     

    NoMoreTreadingOnUs

    Active Member
    Apr 2, 2013
    159
    Garrett County
    I live in West's district and was surprised that he voted in favor. Can you elaborate on your Benedict Arnold comment? I plan to contact him and would like to know more about his history on 2A issues.
     

    Abacab

    Member
    Sep 10, 2009
    2,644
    MD
    I live in West's district and was surprised that he voted in favor. Can you elaborate on your Benedict Arnold comment? I plan to contact him and would like to know more about his history on 2A issues.

    Not a surprise. He did it last year. Total bitch loser. I've let him know multiple times I will vote against him in the primary and the general next time he's up. Oddly he doesn't care even though he hangs on by a thread in a general.
     

    Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,267
    Harford County
    Not a surprise. He did it last year. Total bitch loser. I've let him know multiple times I will vote against him in the primary and the general next time he's up. Oddly he doesn't care even though he hangs on by a thread in a general.

    That last part may be the key. In the House version, there was an R delegate who voted for it (Malone, I think). One of the times Katie and I were traipsing around Annapolis, we wanted to track him down and give him what for. We chatted with another friendly delegate from the Judiciary Committee (I can't remember who, at the moment), who gave us a friendly lesson in politics:

    Like the General Assembly, the Judiciary Committee is stacked overwhelmingly against us. It would have taken an unfathomable number of D's to break with party lines to stop it. An R vote either way was not going to make a difference. The delegate in question was from a very blue district, hanging on by a thread. We did not want to lose that seat to yet another D. He could vote for the stupid bill to make his constituents happy (hopefully enough to re-elect him), and his vote really didn't matter either way.
    "But what the Hell is the point of holding on to an R seat if they vote D anyway?" I asked. Keeping that seat R is important for instances where his vote could actually make a difference, when he would vote Right. That's Politics.
    The friendly Delegate further explained that the exact same thing happened with Trump, Romney, and Impeachment. Romney's constituents are Mormon, and apparently Mormons hate Trump (something else I learned :shrug:). There were already enough votes against impeachment that Romney's wouldn't matter. He could keep his constituents happy without doing any real damage and still keep an R seat for when it really mattered.

    That was a sobering lesson in politics. It makes sense...it pisses me off, but I accept that that is the way it is.:sad20:

    Perhaps West is in a similar situation. In terms of passing, what's the difference between 8-3 and 7-4?

    Just a thought :shrug:
     
    Last edited:

    bbrown

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 10, 2009
    3,032
    MD
    Perhaps West is in a similar situation. In terms of passing, what's the difference between 8-3 and 7-4?

    Just a thought :shrug:

    What's the difference? It's on his permanent voting record and shows the malleability of his positions.

    Still, he chose not to make that issue the hill he chooses to die on. No, that is not intended as a threat.
     

    PowPow

    Where's the beef?
    Nov 22, 2012
    4,712
    Howard County
    Sen. West is a really nice guy. We've talked a few times. One time he even offered to let my son push his voting button. I said that would be fine, if my son could make the choice. (PowPow Jr. knows what to do on gun bills)

    I was not surprised by Sen. West's vote on SB208. He's voted more than a few times on the wrong side of the 2A. But, alas, I am convinced that he is just one of those who doesn't get the whole problem with attempting to regulate a natural right, the problems it causes, and the consequences in the long term. He's not quite in the "if it could save just one life" camp, but I'd bet he's closer to that than we'd like to know.
     

    Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,267
    Harford County
    Sen. West is a really nice guy. We've talked a few times. One time he even offered to let my son push his voting button. I said that would be fine, if my son could make the choice. (PowPow Jr. knows what to do on gun bills)

    I was not surprised by Sen. West's vote on SB208. He's voted more than a few times on the wrong side of the 2A. But, alas, I am convinced that he is just one of those who doesn't get the whole problem with attempting to regulate a natural right, the problems it causes, and the consequences in the long term. He's not quite in the "if it could save just one life" camp, but I'd bet he's closer to that than we'd like to know.

    That's pretty funny about the voting button! As to the rest of your post...this session the reps have seen our (well...mostly Katie's) faces enough to know who we are. We've repeatedly chatted with quite a few of the friendlies, and, while I certainly won't claim any sort of inner sanctum access, I do feel like they have become more familiar and open with us than just any "Mr. and Mrs. Alleged R Of The Street." I'm not going to betray that confidence on here, but their take on who is truly friend or foe of 2A can be surprising and counterintuitive.

    I've been taught for most of my life that we have the best form of government on the planet. :patriot: I still believe that. However, :tap: this session's extended involvement has pulled away some of that naïveté, and I have to wonder, "Is this the best we can do? How does anything good happen?":sad20:
     

    PowPow

    Where's the beef?
    Nov 22, 2012
    4,712
    Howard County
    The Judicial Proceedings report (#14) with SB208 shown as Favorable with Amendments is on today's Senate 8pm agenda. I'll post up links to the amendment text when they are added (probably tomorrow or Wed) and the committee vote tally as well when that becomes available.

    The committee report with SB208 is on the agenda for tomorrow's session starting at 10am. I misread the date.
     

    PowPow

    Where's the beef?
    Nov 22, 2012
    4,712
    Howard County
    That's pretty funny about the voting button! As to the rest of your post...this session the reps have seen our (well...mostly Katie's) faces enough to know who we are. We've repeatedly chatted with quite a few of the friendlies, and, while I certainly won't claim any sort of inner sanctum access, I do feel like they have become more familiar and open with us than just any "Mr. and Mrs. Alleged R Of The Street." I'm not going to betray that confidence on here, but their take on who is truly friend or foe of 2A can be surprising and counterintuitive.

    I've been taught for most of my life that we have the best form of government on the planet. :patriot: I still believe that. However, :tap: this session's extended involvement has pulled away some of that naïveté, and I have to wonder, "Is this the best we can do? How does anything good happen?":sad20:

    Maybe by doing what you're doing. See you tomorrow!
     

    Kicken Wing

    Snakes and Sparklers
    Apr 5, 2014
    868
    WASH-CO
    That's about all we can do, right? :shrug: See you soon. :mdpatriot:

    Yup.... it's 1:45 am and I will be up and at 'em at 5:30 to get ready to leave. I am almost finished reading the book "What Makes You Think We Read the Bills" by Senator H.L. Bill Richardson. It was written in 1978 and revised in 2003. It is a free book when you sign up for a membership with the G.O.A. It definitely answers some of your questions. At 140 pages, it is a quick and easy read. I highly suggest everyone on this board that has any interest in the political aspect of gun ownership read this. Especially those of us that are going to Annapolis and getting involved.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    That's pretty funny about the voting button! As to the rest of your post...this session the reps have seen our (well...mostly Katie's) faces enough to know who we are. We've repeatedly chatted with quite a few of the friendlies, and, while I certainly won't claim any sort of inner sanctum access, I do feel like they have become more familiar and open with us than just any "Mr. and Mrs. Alleged R Of The Street." I'm not going to betray that confidence on here, but their take on who is truly friend or foe of 2A can be surprising and counterintuitive.

    I've been taught for most of my life that we have the best form of government on the planet. :patriot: I still believe that. However, :tap: this session's extended involvement has pulled away some of that naïveté, and I have to wonder, "Is this the best we can do? How does anything good happen?":sad20:

    Welcome to a somewhat closer view to "how the sausage is made", I too, learned a lot back in 2013 doing essentially the same thing you and Katie are doing.

    If you really want to scratch your head for 90 days, volunteer to work in a Delegate or Senator's office as staff, and then you get to see the whole process and see even more pieces to the puzzle that is our citizen government.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,172
    Outside the Gates
    Yup.... it's 1:45 am and I will be up and at 'em at 5:30 to get ready to leave. I am almost finished reading the book "What Makes You Think We Read the Bills" by Senator H.L. Bill Richardson. It was written in 1978 and revised in 2003. It is a free book when you sign up for a membership with the G.O.A. It definitely answers some of your questions. At 140 pages, it is a quick and easy read. I highly suggest everyone on this board that has any interest in the political aspect of gun ownership read this. Especially those of us that are going to Annapolis and getting involved.

    Welcome to a somewhat closer view to "how the sausage is made", I too, learned a lot back in 2013 doing essentially the same thing you and Katie are doing.

    If you really want to scratch your head for 90 days, volunteer to work in a Delegate or Senator's office as staff, and then you get to see the whole process and see even more pieces to the puzzle that is our citizen government.

    Does the book end at Sine Die or does it also cover the act being defined for publishing in COMAR by the relevant state agency and approval by the committee that almost no one knows about in August or September?
     

    PowPow

    Where's the beef?
    Nov 22, 2012
    4,712
    Howard County
    Updated the OP with the SB208 amendments. (12 of them) I have not had a chance to digest them. They also voted in committee today to conform HB4 to the Senate version. We will see both of them on the floor tomorrow.

    Here are the amendments. 398179/2

    Sen. Smith laid over SB208 for tomorrow, so the Senate Agenda for tomorrow includes:

    SB0208 Public Safety - Rifles and Shotguns - Secondary Transactions
    Senator Lee Calendar Day 03/03/20 Reported Favorably with Amendments (12) by the Committee on Judicial Proceedings and Laid Over under the Rule.
    QUESTION IS ON THE ADOPTION OF THE COMMITTEE AMENDMENTS (12) AND THE FAVORABLE REPORT.

    Judicial Proceedings Committee Report No. 15
    Distribution Date: March 4, 2020
    Second Reading Date: March 4, 2020
    FAVORABLE
    HB0004 Favorable with Amendments(6) Delegate Atterbeary
    Public Safety - Rifles and Shotguns - Secondary Transactions
     
    Last edited:

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Updated the OP with the SB208 amendments. (12 of them) I have not had a chance to digest them. They also voted in committee today to conform HB4 to the Senate version. We will see both of them on the floor tomorrow.

    Here are the amendments. 398179/2

    Sen. Smith laid over SB208 for tomorrow, so the Senate Agenda for tomorrow includes:

    SB0208 Public Safety - Rifles and Shotguns - Secondary Transactions
    Senator Lee Calendar Day 03/03/20 Reported Favorably with Amendments (12) by the Committee on Judicial Proceedings and Laid Over under the Rule.
    QUESTION IS ON THE ADOPTION OF THE COMMITTEE AMENDMENTS (12) AND THE FAVORABLE REPORT.

    Judicial Proceedings Committee Report No. 15
    Distribution Date: March 4, 2020
    Second Reading Date: March 4, 2020
    FAVORABLE
    HB0004 Favorable with Amendments(6) Delegate Atterbeary
    Public Safety - Rifles and Shotguns - Secondary Transactions

    At first glance, it appears that it allows for the "gratuitous loan" of a long gun so long as you aren't violating what is already federal and state law (eg, loaning it to a prohibited person). It also establishes a maximum fee of $30 for a transfer (most FFLs charge more than that at this time).

    Good thing is, that by establishing a fee, it's creating a poll tax, which is an argument that can be used in court if this dumpster fire of a bill passes.
     

    Bertfish

    Throw bread on me
    Mar 13, 2013
    17,606
    White Marsh, MD
    At first glance, it appears that it allows for the "gratuitous loan" of a long gun so long as you aren't violating what is already federal and state law (eg, loaning it to a prohibited person). It also establishes a maximum fee of $30 for a transfer (most FFLs charge more than that at this time).

    Good thing is, that by establishing a fee, it's creating a poll tax, which is an argument that can be used in court if this dumpster fire of a bill passes.

    IIRC there is a maximum fee for a regulated firearms transfer in law as well. It's very low. The FFLs charge more because they have to to make money and that's that.
     

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