cz pistols with enhancements for IDPA

boss281 · Nov 22, 2019

I just received my IDPA card and will shoot the IDPA match in late December at the AGC. Since I'm just going through the rules I put myself down for ESP for now and plan to use my SP-01 Tactical.

I have upgraded both my CZ P-01 compact and CZ SP-01 tactical full size pistols with trigger, hammer and spring enhancements from Cajun Gun Works. Fine range guns, and the P-01 was my carry pistol for a long time. It's not clear if the larger/heavier SP-01 Tactical is eligible and I'd prefer that for run and gun.

Anyone know? SP-01 Tac specs from the web page, assume the weight is with EMPTY magazine.

Weight 40.5 oz
Overall Length 8.15 in
Height 5.79 in
Width 1.46 in

Bikebreath · Nov 25, 2019

boss281 said:
I just received my IDPA card and will shoot the IDPA match in late December at the AGC. Since I'm just going through the rules I put myself down for ESP for now and plan to use my SP-01 Tactical.

I have upgraded both my CZ P-01 compact and CZ SP-01 tactical full size pistols with trigger, hammer and spring enhancements from Cajun Gun Works. Fine range guns, and the P-01 was my carry pistol for a long time. It's not clear if the larger/heavier SP-01 Tactical is eligible and I'd prefer that for run and gun.

Anyone know? SP-01 Tac specs from the web page, assume the weight is with EMPTY magazine.

Weight 40.5 oz
Overall Length 8.15 in
Height 5.79 in
Width 1.46 in

Logically, if you are putting the gun in the box for sizing and weighing it, it would not be loaded. Safety would dictate that. With some shooters using 115gr and others using 147gr rounds it doesn't make sense to me that the mag would be anything but empty. I assume your assumption to be right.

Then I went to the rule book:

8.2.2 Enhanced Service Pistol Division (ESP)
Handguns permitted for use in ESP must:
A. Be semi-automatic.
B. Use 9 mm (9x19) or larger cartridges.
C. The unloaded firearm with the heaviest magazine must weigh 43.00 oz. or less.
D. The firearm with the largest magazine inserted must fit in the IDPA gun test box measuring 8 ¾” x 6” x 1 5
/8”.

boss281 · Nov 25, 2019

Bikebreath said:
Logically, if you are putting the gun in the box for sizing and weighing it, it would not be loaded. Safety would dictate that. With some shooters using 115gr and others using 147gr rounds it doesn't make sense to me that the mag would be anything but empty. I assume your assumption to be right.

Then I went to the rule book:

There you go, UNLOADED and heaviest magazine INSERTED. Thanks for pointing out the section of the rules. I'm printing out a ton of this now...

jimbobborg · Nov 25, 2019

Is the Tactical metal frames? I think the weight mentioned is without magazine.

boss281 · Nov 25, 2019

jimbobborg said:
Is the Tactical metal frames? I think the weight mentioned is without magazine.

Yep. I should just switch to PCC anyhow. My eyesight with fixed sights will be challenging...

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Bikebreath · Nov 25, 2019

boss281 said:
There you go, UNLOADED and heaviest magazine INSERTED. Thanks for pointing out the section of the rules. I'm printing out a ton of this now...

Bingo!

photoracer · Nov 26, 2019

Normally they don't test firearms at a Level 1 match. Only IDPA match I have run where they tested was at the 2016 WV IDPA State Match. Base level matches you can get away with not being perfect but anything higher you need to make sure it complies. Best thing is to get the gun compliant at your local matches so you know how it feels and shoots if you go higher.

boss281 · Nov 26, 2019

Size wise it's fine but I ordered a scale just to have one going forward.

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photoracer · Nov 27, 2019

boss281 said:
Yep. I should just switch to PCC anyhow. My eyesight with fixed sights will be challenging...

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You might consider Carry Optics since IDPA supports that now. I switched my HK USP-C to Carry Optics by installing a red dot plate in my rear sight dovetail and mounting a Vortex Viper red dot on it.

boss281 · Nov 27, 2019

photoracer said:
You might consider Carry Optics since IDPA supports that now. I switched my HK USP-C to Carry Optics by installing a red dot plate in my rear sight dovetail and mounting a Vortex Viper red dot on it.

I just picked up a second slide for my cz sp-01 and will get it milled. You are probably right, this the best pistol option for aging eyes...

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danb · Dec 12, 2019

boss281 said:
I have upgraded both my CZ P-01 compact and CZ SP-01 tactical full size pistols with trigger, hammer and spring enhancements from Cajun Gun Works. Fine range guns, and the P-01 was my carry pistol for a long time. It's not clear if the larger/heavier SP-01 Tactical is eligible and I'd prefer that for run and gun.

Where did you have the enhancements done?

btw, the standard SP-01 is IDPA legal (43 oz) in SSP and ESP, in fact its specifically mentioned in some guidebooks. The issue might be the hammer and trigger, enhancements which may not be legal in SSP (unless you got the IDPA legal CGW package). Milling the slide for sights would kick you into ESP as I understand the rules (but you can email Gary and ask). Also, if you have the threaded barrel, it will not fit in the box, its like a few 16th s too large. Dont ask me how I know...

boss281 · Dec 12, 2019

Well crap danb, I need to read the rules a bit more closely and I'll email Gary for sure. I opted out of the late month match since PCC isn't an active category, and I just can see the fixed sights at those distances wearing glasses. Gary was gracious about it.

I love CGW, and installed the Pro packages myself, and sold many a kit through Baltimore's Best Pawn and Gun, where I used to work part time after retiring. The sear cage parts are tiny but I wear one of those magnifying headsets to make it easy. I'd say after taking down the parts and cleaning everything, the Pro Package goes together in about 90 minutes if you are not smoothing a surface here and there. I need to go up into the safe and see which hammer I put on the Tactical, I can't remember!

I'm going to brush up on the rules and see where my SP-01 T with red dot fits. ESP is fine, as this is about fun for now. Frankly, I'm more interested in seeing how far I can take a Scorpion carbine in PCC in USPSA and Steel after trying my Scorpion pistol in Steel Challenge. The new carbine version arrives today or tomorrow, and I'll immediately correct the known problems (trigger springs, etc). My dog (true story) actually jumped on my lap yesterday while I was working on the Scorpion pistol, and I dropped the receiver, breaking off the grip on the left side when it hit the basement floor. Two months for a new part. Crap.

The P-01 and SP-01 Tactical are by far my absolute favorite pistols. I have a P-09 and P-07 that are fine shooters too, but somehow just don't have the right feel for me. I have an older 75 BD as well, the Tactical "light", and keeping it as a backup for SP-01. If I can train to use a red dot on the pistol acceptably, then I'll have that milled as well.

The addiction has started all over again.

danb · Dec 12, 2019

boss281 said:
Well crap danb, I need to read the rules a bit more closely and I'll email Gary for sure. I opted out of the late month match since PCC isn't an active category, and I just can see the fixed sights at those distances wearing glasses. Gary was gracious about it.

I love CGW, and installed the Pro packages myself, and sold many a kit through Baltimore's Best Pawn and Gun, where I used to work part time after retiring. The sear cage parts are tiny but I wear one of those magnifying headsets to make it easy. I'd say after taking down the parts and cleaning everything, the Pro Package goes together in about 90 minutes if you are not smoothing a surface here and there. I need to go up into the safe and see which hammer I put on the Tactical, I can't remember!

I'm going to brush up on the rules and see where my SP-01 T with red dot fits. ESP is fine, as this is about fun for now. Frankly, I'm more interested in seeing how far I can take a Scorpion carbine in PCC in USPSA and Steel after trying my Scorpion pistol in Steel Challenge. The new carbine version arrives today or tomorrow, and I'll immediately correct the known problems (trigger springs, etc). My dog (true story) actually jumped on my lap yesterday while I was working on the Scorpion pistol, and I dropped the receiver, breaking off the grip on the left side when it hit the basement floor. Two months for a new part. Crap.

The P-01 and SP-01 Tactical are by far my absolute favorite pistols. I have a P-09 and P-07 that are fine shooters too, but somehow just don't have the right feel for me. I have an older 75 BD as well, the Tactical "light", and keeping it as a backup for SP-01. If I can train to use a red dot on the pistol acceptably, then I'll have that milled as well.

The addiction has started all over again.

I have seen some videos about installation and frankly it seems like a lot of work.

was it worth it? what was the before/after DA/SA trigger pull?

boss281 · Dec 12, 2019

I have to find my notes about trigger pull, but as I recall the results were better than the advertised improvements (7#/3# for the Pro Package enhancements. Note the IDPA upgrades further reduce the amount). I'll check Sunday morning before I go off my weekly indoor shoot with those two pistols.

Was it worth it? Yeah, since I did it myself. I'm happy to let you try both at the AGC or MGN. I'm usually at members only time at the MGN 9am on Sundays, and at the AGC rifle or pistol range on Wednesdays mornings. If you're heading there sometime just shoot me a note and I'll try to make it (I'm retired so USUALLY I can get away most anytime)>

erwos · Dec 12, 2019

Short of doing something really egregious like running a dot or having a giant magwell in ESP, no one's gonna care about your gun at a club match. Realistically, you could hand a new competition shooter a $5k 2011 and a gamer belt rig and they'd still be lucky to finish in the top half of SSP if there was decent competition. There's so much more to winning than your gun. Your gun is maybe like 20% of it, max, and it's the easiest 20%.

danb · Dec 12, 2019

erwos said:
Short of doing something really egregious like running a dot or having a giant magwell in ESP, no one's gonna care about your gun at a club match. Realistically, you could hand a new competition shooter a $5k 2011 and a gamer belt rig and they'd still be lucky to finish in the top half of SSP if there was decent competition. There's so much more to winning than your gun. Your gun is maybe like 20% of it, max, and it's the easiest 20%.

While I agree 100%, if you actually intend to get classified and do a few real matches, switching gears and guns requires some adjustment. No two triggers are alike, for example. There is a lot of muscle memory involved. If you are doing it for fun or want to practice with new gear, thats one thing. If you are competing, you need some good quality intimate time at a club match with the gun you intend to compete.

boss281 · Dec 12, 2019

erwos said:
Short of doing something really egregious like running a dot or having a giant magwell in ESP, no one's gonna care about your gun at a club match. Realistically, you could hand a new competition shooter a $5k 2011 and a gamer belt rig and they'd still be lucky to finish in the top half of SSP if there was decent competition. There's so much more to winning than your gun. Your gun is maybe like 20% of it, max, and it's the easiest 20%.

Since I intend to get the slide milled for the dot due to my aging eyes, I withdrew from this month's competition after a brief chat with Gary. It won't be back in time, much less have time to practice draws and shooting with a new sighting system on a pistol. Fun or serious competition, I need to find what works best and allows me to shoot effectively beyond 10 yards or so. That gives me options for USPSA or IDPA should I want to participate in Carry Optic divisions, and certainly opens up Steel Challenge matches.

erwos · Dec 12, 2019

danb said:
While I agree 100%, if you actually intend to get classified and do a few real matches, switching gears and guns requires some adjustment. No two triggers are alike, for example. There is a lot of muscle memory involved. If you are doing it for fun or want to practice with new gear, thats one thing. If you are competing, you need some good quality intimate time at a club match with the gun you intend to compete.

I've shot for more than a year now at IDPA and USPSA club matches at multiple places, and not once has anyone ever examined or boxed my gun, including for classifiers. I do agree that if you're going to get serious and like... shoot regionals, sectionals, nationals, etc., you need to pick your gun, make sure it's legal for your division, and get good with it. But even then... you think Ben Stoeger stops being Ben Stoeger because he picked up a CZ Shadow 2 instead of his Tanfo Stock III? I'll repeat what I said: your gun is like 20% of your performance. If you can maintain .2-ish splits and hit an A-zone at 15-25yds with a gun, that is about all you need. The rest is stage planning, transitions, and efficient movement.

boss281 said:
Since I intend to get the slide milled for the dot due to my aging eyes, I withdrew from this month's competition after a brief chat with Gary. It won't be back in time, much less have time to practice draws and shooting with a new sighting system on a pistol. Fun or serious competition, I need to find what works best and allows me to shoot effectively beyond 10 yards or so. That gives me options for USPSA or IDPA should I want to participate in Carry Optic divisions, and certainly opens up Steel Challenge matches.

CO is a pretty good option, and if you put in the dry-fire work, you can draw damned fast with it. Funny that you bring up an optics failure - my RMR gave up on me on Sunday, and I had to shoot the IDPA match on Tuesday with my backup gun rocking a Fastfire 3. If you are going to shoot CO, plan on having a backup plan for your gun.

cz pistols with enhancements for IDPA

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