Please forgive me for asking... (W&C vs. CCW)

Kind folks, I'm asking for a little help here, and I accept the pummeling I expect to get for asking...

Can someone provide an original thread about MD W&C-style permit versus CCW?

I have not found the thread as of yet.

It seems to me (and this will probably be proven incorrect) that MD W&C is often conflated with/understood as CCW.

The difference is a Big Deal to me. I am way past the half century mark in age, and probably a grouchy old man to boot.

When it comes to a Life & Death situation involving the fiream I am carrying, I am still Old School about the reliability and the recovery from a Fail to Fire of a DA wheel gun. When it comes to Life & Death, the five-nines reliability of a semi-auto is not sufficient.

That said, I practice a lot with wheel guns and semis. I send a stupid amount of ammo down range.

I have a good Rationale Engine for the cost of poofing all of that ammo. As a Wood & Steel guy, I *enjoy* the practice, whatever the cost, much in the way that I *enjoy* practicing on guitar. Practice is boring, right? Not to This guy.

I have found that my wheel guns are much more difficult to conceal in carrying.

But I understand that I have a Wear & Carry permit, not a Concealed Carry Permit.

I know very well the argument about other people saying Gun! Gun!! when my SP101 bulges on my hip.

But I also observe people who believe they are concealing their handguns, when the guns are not concealed to anybody who cares to take a real look. Do they really believe their guns are concealed? Are they fooling themselves? Do they just not really care (not the problem of the legally-carrying person)?

There are exceptions such as the LCP II (I like it, it really almost disappears).

And winter in MD makes for big exceptions (pun intended) in concealing a handgun.

But in summer in MD, putting a big hunk of gun under a tee-shirt is not fooling anybody, except maybe the carrier.

I promise to be properly chastised and put in my place for asking. My promise back is that I will read every word of the thread original thread, and get myself more informed.

Wear & Carry Permit includes open and concealed carry, Maryland doesn't make any distinction in the law between the two. We don't have a CCW permit. The WCP also includes more than just handguns, despite MSP often referring to it as a "handgun permit." So you can carry open or concealed, depending on your preferences and circumstances - open carry through downtown Bethesda, for example, might not be the best idea despite being legal for you.

I'll leave it for the legal beagles to explain better, but that's my layman's understanding.

MSP appears to be calling it a Handgun Permit now (HGP)... that is what is showing on their website and the language they are currently using in process. Horrible name as it doesn't imply carry at all and sounds to much like the handgun qualification license.

HGP indeed...

Doctor_M said:

MSP appears to be calling it a Handgun Permit now (HGP)... that is what is showing on their website and the language they are currently using in process. Horrible name as it doesn't imply carry at all and sounds to much like the handgun qualification license.

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Ouch, sorry for not being up-to-speed on the important change in terminology. Words mean things.

Wear & Carry includes open and concealed; CCW is concealed only (but concealed to whom?), and now HCP.

Was this change deliberately stupid? I am not buying into incompetence over evil intent. Why would you name a carry permit by a term that does not explicitly nor implicitly state the "permission" to carry?

I'm late to the update, and the update is a head-scratcher to me.

I wonder whether I need to turn in my W&C, to be replaced by an HCP? Or am I grandfathered in with thte W&C until expiry?

tjaw said:

Ouch, sorry for not being up-to-speed on the important change in terminology. Words mean things.

Wear & Carry includes open and concealed; CCW is concealed only (but concealed to whom?), and now HCP.

Was this change deliberately stupid? I am not buying into incompetence over evil intent. Why would you name a carry permit by a term that does not explicitly nor implicitly state the "permission" to carry?

I'm late to the update, and the update is a head-scratcher to me.

I wonder whether I need to turn in my W&C, to be replaced by an HCP? Or am I grandfathered in with thte W&C until expiry?

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No. W&C is an umbrella term for all modes of licensed carry in Md.
Now it appears that HCP is replacing W&C. CCW name appears nowhere.

Regardless of what it is called it still covers all modes of carry. I am pretty sure the word CARRY means the carrying of a firearm.(pistol)

tjaw said:

.

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Are you also a vegan, and a cross-fitter?

Duplicate info. Blaster got it before I hit the save button.

eruby said:

Are you also a vegan, and a cross-fitter?

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Well, Homo Sapien is not herbivore, and I cling to being a member of that species, so no re the former. As to the latter, I confess to not knowing what a cross-fitter is. 8)

I'll eventually parse thru all the topics in the first post , but it's not clear what is the actual question ? But taking a guess ;

Prior to 1972 , Maryland was Open Carry , but no comprehensive system for civilians to be able to conceal .

In 1972 big changes were passed , primarily contained in what is now 4-203 .

High points :

No more general purpose Open Carry.
List of specific exempted activities where handguns are allowed w/o "Permit" , and transporting only to & from such places and activities .

The creation of a "Permit " process for something called * Wear & Carry Permit * , because that's what the General Assembly decreed it would be called .

Outside the above mentioned exceptions , a W&C Permit would be required for handguns , be they Open or Concealed , or combination .

The W&C Permits would default be valid for both Open and Concealed . But rarely was anything actually Default , restrictive language on individual Permits was authorized in the original 1972 statutes , and MSP has always taken that to heart to always have restrictive language . Sometimes that included " Open Only " .

From 1972 to 2013 , violation of restrictions was not criminal per se , but MSP would Administratively Revoke at the drop of a hat .

Along those lines , MSP would actually Revoke , or threaten to Revoke for people w/ " Permits" to actually Open Carry outside of environments that traditionally had exposed firearms . ( ie causing undue alarm to the public ).

Is this warm to the background the OP is seeking ?

Added- Maryland has Never had a document or process titled CCW

I wouldn't be open carrying in MD even if I had a W & C permit. Might make someone "nervous" and get my permit revoked

Biggfoot44 said:

I'll eventually parse thru all the topics in the first post , but it's not clear what is the actual question ? But taking a guess ;

Prior to 1972 , Maryland was Open Carry , but no comprehensive system for civilians to be able to conceal .

In 1972 big changes were passed , primarily contained in what is now 4-203 .

High points :

No more general purpose Open Carry.
List of specific exempted activities where handguns are allowed w/o "Permit" , and transporting only to & from such places and activities .

The creation of a "Permit " process for something called * Wear & Carry Permit * , because that's what the General Assembly decreed it would be called .

Outside the above mentioned exceptions , a W&C Permit would be required for handguns , be they Open or Concealed , or combination .

The W&C Permits would default be valid for both Open and Concealed . But rarely was anything actually Default , restrictive language on individual Permits was authorized in the original 1972 statutes , and MSP has always taken that to heart to always have restrictive language . Sometimes that included " Open Only " .

From 1972 to 2013 , violation of restrictions was not criminal per se , but MSP would Administratively Revoke at the drop of a hat .

Along those lines , MSP would actually Revoke , or threaten to Revoke for people w/ " Permits" to actually Open Carry outside of environments that traditionally had exposed firearms . ( ie causing undue alarm to the public ).

Is this warm to the background the OP is seeking ?

Added- Maryland has Never had a document or process titled CCW

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Longest response to a question that asks what's the difference between W&C and CCW.

I answered it with 3 sentences.

Not often you hear a fellow bragging that "his is shorter"

Blaster229 said:

Longest response to a question that asks what's the difference between W&C and CCW.
I answered it with 3 sentences.

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How does the longer answer offend you?

TapRackBang said:

How does the longer answer offend you?

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Why go into the history of something that really has nothing to do with the status of something right now?

There's a whole thread on pet peeves.
An observation doesn't mean I'm offended. Just saying that's a lot of shit for something that can be answered in a sentence or two.. Some people can't help themselves, that's all.
Why are you offended by what I said?

Blaster229 said:

No. W&C is an umbrella term for all modes of licensed carry in Md.
Now it appears that HCP is replacing W&C. CCW name appears nowhere.

Regardless of what it is called it still covers all modes of carry. I am pretty sure the word CARRY means the carrying of a firearm.(pistol)

Click to expand...

I thought it just meant carrying of a weapon and, though usually a firearm, also applied to a concealed fixed blade dagger for example. Did I misunderstand or has that changed?

DanGuy48 said:

I thought it just meant carrying of a weapon and, though usually a firearm, also applied to a concealed fixed blade dagger for example. Did I misunderstand or has that changed?

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Does it say it in the regulation? I dunno.
Maybe it's been assumed that if you can carry a gun, a switchblade or whatever is assumed? Is a "list of weapons" in there somewhere? Not a clue.
Don't give the state any ideas for a knife carrying permit. Lol

According to 4-203 , it's just for handguns.

According to 4-101 , a W&C provides an exemption for fixed blade and auto knives .

Two sentences that time.

Biggfoot44 said:

According to 4-203 , it's just for handguns.

According to 4-101 , a W&C provides an exemption for fixed blade and auto knives .

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Yay! More internally contradictory laws brought to you by the eternal genius that is the MGA!

"The white zone is for loading and unloading of passengers only..."

I have a question about a 4473 form,
When I was a small child sitting grandfather's lap as he whittled small woodland creatures from red cedar branches,, from trees his father had planted when he arrived from Scotland,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Blaster229 said:

Longest response to a question that asks what's the difference between W&C and CCW.

I answered it with 3 sentences.

Click to expand...