FBI Goes GLOCK 9mm

highli99 · Jun 30, 2016

I agree with going .9mm or .45acp. I dont always follow this advice.

Blaster229 · Jun 30, 2016

Until someone who has shot someone with a 9 or 45 chimes in here with their experience, I'm going to shoot the fck out of someone with whatever I have in my hand.

nedsurf · Jul 1, 2016

Glock is the gun equivalent of the Borg cube. "Resistance is futile; you will be assimilated"

Hoping willing agents with some hair on their chests are allowed to carry the Glock 20 with unneutered 10mm.

Cal68 · Jul 1, 2016

zoostation said:
I would beg to differ. While there's a million of these tests out there from everything from published government tests to assorted people on youtube, luckygunner has one of the best and most concise recent compilations I think.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm

Minuteman said:
Great reference!

I agree, this is a great reference. I've bookmarked it and will review it every time I want to purchase ammo. It almost feels like it deserves a place in the "Sticky" section.

Cal68

joppaj · Jul 1, 2016

nedsurf said:
Glock is the gun equivalent of the Borg cube. "Resistance is futile; you will be assimilated"

Hoping willing agents with some hair on their chests are allowed to carry the Glock 20 with unneutered 10mm.

They don't carry full sized handguns. At current they use the Glock 23.

Biggfoot44 · Jul 1, 2016

Back when when the .40 was brand new I always said :

" If you really want bigger than 9mm, don't halfway, just carry a .45 . Or if you really want lighter/ smaller than a .45, just carry a 9mm ."

And the related :

" If your concerned about the capacity of a .45 , you're not carrying enough mags. If you're concerned about 9mm not being powerful enough, use +P+ ( and practice more, and use good technique). "

All that said, I just got a .40 conversion bbl for my 10mm . For purposes of being able to get cheap plinking ammo at WalMart.

smokey · Jul 1, 2016

zoostation said:
I personally think all agencies should go with the new 8x19mm Black Widow round. It only weighs 15 grains but leaves the barrel at 7,000fps and contains a small venomous spider in the nose cone. The spider then bites the bad guy who falls instantly dead, as has been proven by many James Bond films. It does not make a large wound cavity, which has the added benefit of four out five dentists preferring it for preventing cavities. A rifle version is also planned, which will fire a heavier bullet transporting a pregnant venomous spider which will lay several hundred eggs with a three days gestation period before hatching and bursting forth through the skin. This will not only have the effect of instantly killing the bad guy, it will also add great hilarity to the scene of his viewing 72 hours later.

I know it's true. I read it on the internet.

This one seems highly practical as well...
http://www.realguns.com/archives/094.htm

dist1646 · Jul 1, 2016

85 million dollars! That is a lot of _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Glocks!!!!

smokey · Jul 1, 2016

https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=4367306&postcount=9

Also this. The 9, 40, & 45 have roughly the same potential to cause trauma in a magazine. The 9 divides that damage into more shots, the 45 into fewer. The 9 is cheaper, shoots flatter, and is easier to shoot fast, the 45 has more momentum. In a world where shots hit their target, 45 causes more damage more quickly. In a realistic world where LEOs have a 17 to 1 shot to hit ratio, it makes sense to error towards more shots that are easier to deliver.

moojersey · Jul 1, 2016

I never understood the caliber arguments. I'm going to dump all 15 rounds into whoever is in front of me. I can't imagine it makes a difference if I dump 15 rounds of 9mm, .40, or .45acp. No one is getting up.

clandestine · Jul 1, 2016

smokey0118 said:
https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=4367306&postcount=9

Also this. The 9, 40, & 45 have roughly the same potential to cause trauma in a magazine. The 9 divides that damage into more shots, the 45 into fewer. The 9 is cheaper, shoots flatter, and is easier to shoot fast, the 45 has more momentum. In a world where shots hit their target, 45 causes more damage more quickly. In a realistic world where LEOs have a 17 to 1 shot to hit ratio, it makes sense to error towards more shots that are easier to deliver.

That is crazy talk!

jimbobborg · Jul 1, 2016

smokey0118 said:
In a realistic world where LEOs have a 17 to 1 shot to hit ratio, it makes sense to error towards more shots that are easier to deliver.

Maybe they should practice more at a range instead of shooting more rounds around people :innocent0

smokey · Jul 1, 2016

clandestine said:
That is crazy talk!

Haha yup

dbledoc · Jul 1, 2016

Having treated GSW from all kinds of handgun calibers and seeing how most are not lethal, (shot placement is poor) I personally would carry whatever I can control and hit the target with as many rounds as possible. I don't care if it is 45, 40 or 9. If the shots are not placed well, then I need many shots to stop the threat. Hence, I like 9 over 40 for capacity, but prefer 357 sig in my HD weapons

ashershapiro · Jul 1, 2016

redeemed.man · Jul 1, 2016

clandestine said:
I would not personally choose a .45 over a 9mm. I sold all of my .45's long ago. I would never choose .45 over 9mm unless I had to pick a particular handgun. For instance of I had to own a 1911, it WILL be a .45.

IMO there is nothing the .40 does better than than either .45 or 9mm when comparing stopping power (and IMO 3 calibers suck as man stoppers), cost, capacity, and recoil.

IMO, if you want a man stopper in an autoloader handgun, get a 10mm.

If one is choosing .40 because it makes a bigger hole, and that a bigger hole is important, then the logical choice is .45. .45 not only makes a bigger hole than .40, it suppresses better than a .40 as well.

If capacity is important then a 9mm wins over .40 and .45.

If cost is important then 9mm wins over .40 and .45.

If recoil and fast follow up shots are inportant then 9mm wins over .40 and .45.

If grip size is inportant then 9mm and .40 are equal, and .45 is out in many designs.

I look at my guns as tools. I pick calibers that are common, guns that parts and magazines are common and plentiful.

Excellent post and agreed completely.

redeemed.man · Jul 1, 2016

Blaster229 said:
Until someone who has shot someone with a 9 or 45 chimes in here with their experience, I'm going to shoot the fck out of someone with whatever I have in my hand.

Another great post! Having a gun and shot placement are the most important factors.

I have been shot once with a .38, it was not fun. It did not stop me though. I walked five blocks before I even knew I was hit. It was a lower leg shot, broke a bone down to the marrow. Spent a week in the hospital afterwards due to the infection risks and several weeks in a cast.

zoostation · Jul 1, 2016

Z_Man said:
have you ever been on the .gov side of the fence when it comes to purchasing and logistics across an agency?

its a big enough problem keeping 1 item in stock where it needs to be.... never mind 3 or more. you would have a field agency saying they are out of 40 (cuz lets face it, most wouldn't change given the opportunity). but in the system you have 100k rounds of 40... its just in texas and DC and NY not SF. and, likely the agents in SF with no 40 would be shit out of luck because the wouldn't have extra firearms chambered in not 40.

the only way to allow each agent to choose would be to give each agent a yearly stipend for ammo (training requirements + EDC amount). and let them field their own firearms. this would be prohibitively expensive, and depending on the location of the agents, difficult.

I get the intent, but the labor and shipping costs of managing 1 extra caliber is astronomical.

not to mention if there is a shooting the agency is involved in...

the FBI decided that 9mm meets their requirement for performance. it is likely cost and marksmanship issues that are driving that decision. but the FBI has always stated 12 inches of penetration in ballistic gel as the standard.

what I am most curious is if they will be going with 124 gr +p gold dots, or if they will choose a different load.

Actually I have been on that side, locally though not federally. I ran supply and quartermaster for an 800 person agency for four years. For local and state agencies it would be no problem to stock different calibers. They're already stocking different calibers and loads for rifles, shotguns, training, street use, etc. That's easy. If you want a fun challenge try stocking uniforms.

Especially when you have a copyrighted blue that only your agency uses and shirts have to be done in minimum lots of 100 per size. Getting every one of 600 officers happy with their vest fitting and in a gas mask that fit tests to OSHA specs is even more fun. Compared to things like that, different calibers are easy. I will admit I've never bought anything on the federal side of things. But for state and local purchasing having three calibers to pick from should not pose any great challenge.

Squaregrouper · Jul 1, 2016

dbledoc said:
Having treated GSW from all kinds of handgun calibers and seeing how most are not lethal, (shot placement is poor) I personally would carry whatever I can control and hit the target with as many rounds as possible. I don't care if it is 45, 40 or 9. If the shots are not placed well, then I need many shots to stop the threat. Hence, I like 9 over 40 for capacity, but prefer 357 sig in my HD weapons

A doctor at a South Baltimore hospital probably knows more than anyone else in the thread.
Thanks for putting it in perspective.

eruby · Jul 1, 2016

ashershapiro said:
9

Please try not to be so verbose.

FBI Goes GLOCK 9mm

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