Keycard Auto Sear

Ponder_MD · Dec 21, 2021

I looked but I couldn't find an existing thread for this.

Are you guys following the case of Kristopher Ervin? This guy was arrested for selling a sketch of an auto sear printed on an aluminum card. He's been held without bail for *months*.

I sort of got up to speed on the case yesterday. It's hard to fathom. If this guy is convicted, it will open the door to practically any raw material being considered an illegal weapon. It will also freeze free speech because if you dare to sketch a weapon part on a cocktail napkin, it would be considered an illegal weapon. (yeah, I know, there's no such thing as an "illegal weapon.)

This key card sketch is being considered a complete "machine gun" by the ATF. These guys are absolutely mad.

geda · Dec 21, 2021

I am not a lawyer and this is the first I am reading about this . The internet is telling me "etched" and "printed" in a couple different places. If the image is silk screened, inkjet, hand drawn with a sharpie, etc, this would straight up 1A. If he etched it in some way that removed material I think the government's case does have a leg to stand on. Normally when you laser etch something like metal, with equipment a normal person can afford, you have to coat it with black paint that will not reflect the laser. The laser then burns through the paint into the metal. Case could come down to a scanning electron microscope image of the card with lawyers arguing about how many nanometers of metal were removed and how many atoms that is.

teratos · Dec 21, 2021

WTF are people doing that they get caught? They must tell everyone who will listen they are doing something stupid.

Ponder_MD · Dec 21, 2021

teratos said:
WTF are people doing that they get caught? They must tell everyone who will listen they are doing something stupid.

Telling? No, he was SELLING these key cards so he was very public about it. Why shouldn't someone be allowed to sell "drawings" of parts?

From what I've seen, it simply looks like black ink printed onto a piece of aluminum. It doesn't look etched at all, but I could be wrong. It definitely doesn't look perforated or made to be simply punched out and inserted into a firearm.

In any case, holding this guy in prison for over a year, without bail is reprehensible. He's not a flight risk.

outrider58 · Dec 21, 2021

Dummass shoulda seen a lawyer before he needed one...

clandestine · Dec 21, 2021

Don't troll the ATF unless you have the means to do battle.

Ponder_MD · Dec 21, 2021

Ok, he picked a fight. If he wins, we'll be the beneficiaries of it. If he loses, we all lose.

USArmyJoe · Dec 21, 2021

I'm a bit shocked how little support there is for him considering he is being held, without charges, without bail, for months.

Lets hope the rest of the thread gives a better picture.

rbird7282 · Dec 21, 2021

The guy had over 1500 of them in his house. They are etched onto a metal card so the buyer could cut it out and install it into a firearm. Obviously it’s a gray area because the final end user is the one cutting it out of the card but
he tried to skirt the law and ATF rules as closely as possible. He’s a complete moron. He had apparently made over 120K and shipped over 1200 packages.
Nobody would pay $80-$140 for a credit card sized piece of metal with an auto sear etched into it just because it looked cool. (Ok maybe somebody here would lol)
This is not even comparable to sketching something on a napkin.
The held without bail without charges part is disturbing if true. I can’t find anything on this more recent than last Spring.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pbharvey · Dec 21, 2021

clandestine said:
Don't troll the ATF unless you have the means to do battle.

Aren't they the same people who kick down your door and shoot your dog if you have an oil filter and washers in your garage or a mag light with no batteries?

Biggfoot44 · Dec 21, 2021

If that's their interpretation , then Charge him with something .

clandestine · Dec 21, 2021

pbharvey said:
Aren't they the same people who kick down your door and shoot your dog if you have an oil filter and washers in your garage or a mag light with no batteries?

You can always call or email them to ask.

I'm licensed and I follow the law.

Engine4 · Dec 21, 2021

USArmyJoe said:
I'm a bit shocked how little support there is for him considering he is being held, without charges, without bail, for months.

This! And, coupled with the 1/6 political prisoners not getting much support, I'm not understanding it at all. As I've said before, it's getting to the point where I'd agree to an armed revolt where those illegally held could be released.

outrider58 · Dec 21, 2021

Ponder_MD said:
I looked but I couldn't find an existing thread for this.

Are you guys following the case of Kristopher Ervin? This guy was arrested for selling a sketch of an auto sear printed on an aluminum card. He's been held without bail for *months*.

I sort of got up to speed on the case yesterday. It's hard to fathom. If this guy is convicted, it will open the door to practically any raw material being considered an illegal weapon. It will also freeze free speech because if you dare to sketch a weapon part on a cocktail napkin, it would be considered an illegal weapon. (yeah, I know, there's no such thing as an "illegal weapon.)

This key card sketch is being considered a complete "machine gun" by the ATF. These guys are absolutely mad.

First off, where's the link? I am in no mood to Goggle search "making illegal auto sears for fun and profit".

USArmyJoe said:
I'm a bit shocked how little support there is for him considering he is being held, without charges, without bail, for months.

Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes...
Lets hope the rest of the thread gives a better picture.

Secondly, this egghead took tremendous risk to his freedom in order to make money. Did he consult the BATFE? Evidently he did not. He probably has been charged since the original story broke. Has he even retained council yet? If he has, he's more than likely been told to keep mum.

Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes...

USArmyJoe · Dec 21, 2021

outrider58 said:
First off, where's the link? I am in no mood to Goggle search "making illegal auto sears for fun and profit".

From March 2021 - https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdfl/p...ailing-multiple-machinegun-conversion-devices

From April 2021 - https://www.jacksonville.com/story/...charged-mailing-machine-gun-parts/7220035002/

From July 2021 - https://www.jacksonville.com/story/...machine-gun-parts-case-judge-says/7906687002/

From December 16, 2021 - https://www.ammoland.com/2021/12/motion-to-dismiss-in-lightning-link-case-has-been-denied/

He is now charged with a bunch of what is essentially tax evasion charges, and unregistered NFA firearms since the ATF is saying each card is a firearm.

outrider58 said:
Secondly, this egghead took tremendous risk to his freedom in order to make money. Did he consult the BATFE? Evidently he did not. He probably has been charged since the original story broke. Has he even retained council yet? If he has, he's more than likely been told to keep mum.

As of May, he was being drowned in legal fees, and still held without bail, as he is being painted as a violent offender and a flight risk, despite all protestations from his legal team to the contrary.

outrider58 said:
Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes...

A video I watched about this made a decent point about this case: The question is "Can the ATF charge you for coming close to breaking the law?"

If these metal cards are close enough to be legally considered firearms (and unregistered MGs at that), then where is the line? Please remember that shoelaces and clothes hangers have also been deemed machine guns by the ATF before. Surely you don't have any of those in possession to "win stupid prizes".

cantstop · Dec 21, 2021

He should have sold them as coat hanger kits.

smokey · Dec 21, 2021

Am I now a felon for sharing this image with you? That's what this case is about. What's illegal is the nfa. The criminals are the ones enforcing the 2a infringements. Full stop.

teratos · Dec 21, 2021

smokey0118 said:
Am I now a felon for sharing this image with you? That's what this case is about. What's illegal is the nfa. The criminals are the ones enforcing the 2a infringements. Full stop.

The ATF will determine that when they show up...

Sorry about your dogs, bro.

Ponder_MD · Dec 21, 2021

smokey0118 said:
Am I now a felon for sharing this image with you? That's what this case is about. What's illegal is the nfa. The criminals are the ones enforcing the 2a infringements. Full stop.

Precisely. What you've posted is in even greater detail than the key card this guy was selling. I could take your drawing and make a better auto sear than what this guy was selling.

I may be wrong, but from what I've seen of the cards, it was simply an image, with no dimensional information on it, no perforations. You'd have to dremel it out, file it down and assemble it and even then, it may not work.

Apparently the ATF actually did it but they won't say how many attempts it took to make a functioning part. I'm sorry but I don't really feel that this was a case of "play stupid games."

Here's the latest that I learned yesterday: The Circuit court declined to rule, and said that the case must go to trial. Apparently this was expected. His trial is in April. He will have been in prison for well over a year at that point.

If I were exonerated and had spent over a year in prison, I'd definitely be suing the ATF for some financial recompense.

pbharvey · Dec 21, 2021

clandestine said:
You can always call or email them to ask.

I'm licensed and I follow the law.

I follow the law when I know what it is.
The trick is to know when you’re breaking a law you’re not aware of.

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