Keycard Auto Sear

pbharvey said:

I follow the law when I know what it is.
The trick is to know when you’re breaking a law you’re not aware of.

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When agencies write their own "laws" on the fly, you'll never know.

Ponder_MD said:

no perforations

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This is along the lines of what I was saying in post #2. "Etching" implies removal of material. If there were perforations he may be in deep poop. How deep do they need to be? Do they have to penetrate all the way? Is half way too far? .001" into the material is too far? What does an 80% lighting link look like?

In this video: https://youtu.be/eK5NerxAlhU?t=107

I can see that I was wrong, the card is lightly etched not merely ink-printed. You *still* can't just punch it out and pop it into a firearm. It will still require the same amount of dremel/cutting work to cut it out, trim it, and fit it to a firearm. It's about as useful as an unetched sheet of metal from my point of view.

THIS is a lightning link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ADo_pOKUBY
It is a fully assembled, functional part.

USArmyJoe said:

From March 2021 - https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdfl/p...ailing-multiple-machinegun-conversion-devices

From April 2021 - https://www.jacksonville.com/story/...charged-mailing-machine-gun-parts/7220035002/

From July 2021 - https://www.jacksonville.com/story/...machine-gun-parts-case-judge-says/7906687002/

From December 16, 2021 - https://www.ammoland.com/2021/12/motion-to-dismiss-in-lightning-link-case-has-been-denied/

He is now charged with a bunch of what is essentially tax evasion charges, and unregistered NFA firearms since the ATF is saying each card is a firearm.



As of May, he was being drowned in legal fees, and still held without bail, as he is being painted as a violent offender and a flight risk, despite all protestations from his legal team to the contrary.



A video I watched about this made a decent point about this case: The question is "Can the ATF charge you for coming close to breaking the law?"

If these metal cards are close enough to be legally considered firearms (and unregistered MGs at that), then where is the line? Please remember that shoelaces and clothes hangers have also been deemed machine guns by the ATF before. Surely you don't have any of those in possession to "win stupid prizes".

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Thanks for the links USAJoe. These should have been in the OP. They prove that most of what appeared in this thread was BS.

Ervin was charged and indicted on several charges(which is not surprising. Throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. A common practice.) and is awaiting trial. It is within authority's rights to hold anyone they fear is a risk(fill in the blank). He's going bankrupt from legal fees(my shocked face).

Call's assertion that these "AutoKeyCards" are art, is a joke to anyone with a brain. We all know what this is. He basically manufactured 80% auto sears to sell to the public.

Again, he was foolish to do this without conferring with the BATFE. And why didn't he? Probably because he knew what the answer would have been.

This doesn't mean I am for this. It only means I am for obeying the law until it is changed. His actions, in my view, didn't help that cause.

smokey0118 said:

Am I now a felon for sharing this image with you? That's what this case is about. What's illegal is the nfa. The criminals are the ones enforcing the 2a infringements. Full stop.

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Since both parts were printed on the same piece of metal and the drawing shows them to be two different thicknesses it would not have been easy to produce the parts without above average skills with common hand tools or more advanced manufacturing equipment.

outrider58 said:

Thanks for the links USAJoe. These should have been in the OP. They prove that most of what appeared in this thread was BS.

Ervin was charged and indicted on several charges(which is not surprising. Throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. A common practice.) and is awaiting trial. It is within authority's rights to hold anyone they fear is a risk(fill in the blank). He's going bankrupt from legal fees(my shocked face).

Call's assertion that these "AutoKeyCards" are art, is a joke to anyone with a brain. We all know what this is. He basically manufactured 80% auto sears to sell to the public.

Again, he was foolish to do this without conferring with the BATFE. And why didn't he? Probably because he knew what the answer would have been.

This doesn't mean I am for this. It only means I am for obeying the law until it is changed. His actions, in my view, didn't help that cause.

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So? They're trying to say he's in possession of NFA items because he has what may potentially be turned into a NFA item through lots of work. metal coat hangers can easily be turned into a similar device. Is it a felony to have a metal coat hanger? They're charging him with a crime for possessing and selling etched images that are useless as a gun part as they leave his address. Again, it's not super hard to take that image I posted, manipulate it until it prints to perfect scale, mark it on sheet metal, and cut it out to create your own lightning link. Where is the criminal line in sharing information about how to create gun parts?

Plus, the NFA is clearly an unconstitutional 2a infringement to anyone that's honest about the intent of the 2a. The implementation of it by the AFT is arbitrary and capricious, subjecting citizens to felony charges at the whim of unelected bureaucrats in how they interpret law. This man should not be charged, he definitely shouldn't be stuck in jail, and the NFA should be struck down by the SC. I commend this guy for pointing out the abuses of our government and the absurdity of the NFA.

smokey0118 said:

S. Again, it's not super hard to take that image I posted, manipulate it until it prints to perfect scale, mark it on sheet metal, and cut it out to create your own lightning link. Where is the criminal line in sharing information about how to create gun parts?

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Knowledge is dangerous. Ban knowledge.

randomuser said:

Knowledge is dangerous. Ban knowledge.

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Distributed Defense spent a lot of money to make sure knowledge can be shared.

smokey0118 said:

Am I now a felon for sharing this image with you? That's what this case is about. What's illegal is the nfa. The criminals are the ones enforcing the 2a infringements. Full stop.

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That's a lightning link, not a sear. If you cut that out it is a machine gun.

My guess is that he etched a bit too deep. But you can download scale drawings of this from the internet


I don't think an aluminum lightning link would last very long. They would need to be made from tool steel or it would self distruct pretty quickly. If it ever worked at all

outrider58 said:

Thanks for the links USAJoe. These should have been in the OP. They prove that most of what appeared in this thread was BS.

Ervin was charged and indicted on several charges(which is not surprising. Throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. A common practice.) and is awaiting trial. It is within authority's rights to hold anyone they fear is a risk(fill in the blank). He's going bankrupt from legal fees(my shocked face).

Call's assertion that these "AutoKeyCards" are art, is a joke to anyone with a brain. We all know what this is. He basically manufactured 80% auto sears to sell to the public.

Again, he was foolish to do this without conferring with the BATFE. And why didn't he? Probably because he knew what the answer would have been.

This doesn't mean I am for this. It only means I am for obeying the law until it is changed. His actions, in my view, didn't help that cause.

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smokey0118 said:

So? They're trying to say he's in possession of NFA items because he has what may potentially be turned into a NFA item through lots of work. metal coat hangers can easily be turned into a similar device. Is it a felony to have a metal coat hanger? They're charging him with a crime for possessing and selling etched images that are useless as a gun part as they leave his address. Again, it's not super hard to take that image I posted, manipulate it until it prints to perfect scale, mark it on sheet metal, and cut it out to create your own lightning link. Where is the criminal line in sharing information about how to create gun parts?

Plus, the NFA is clearly an unconstitutional 2a infringement to anyone that's honest about the intent of the 2a. The implementation of it by the AFT is arbitrary and capricious, subjecting citizens to felony charges at the whim of unelected bureaucrats in how they interpret law. This man should not be charged, he definitely shouldn't be stuck in jail, and the NFA should be struck down by the SC. I commend this guy for pointing out the abuses of our government and the absurdity of the NFA.

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I agree, but as I said, I will obey the law because I would be no help at all serving time in prison. Plus, IANAL, but it seems to me, his biggest concern is mail fraud and not so much an NFA violation. It all depends on where the intent lies.

Kyle Rittenhouse served us all by spending some time in prison.

The whole key-card thing is a load of ********. A quirky youtuber used to advertise them. I was tempted to buy one once as a "screw you" to The Man, but The Man has the keys to a cage I have no interest in seeing the inside of. I always figured that sooner or later the guy would get busted. If buying one is a "screw you", can you imagine how insulted the the AFT must have been by the sheer gall of someone actually selling the damn things.

In the end it is stupid. He etched a piece of metal with the outline of a lightning link. While I've never seen one in person, it seems clear that it can't just be punched out, and must actually be machined. Well...hell. You don't need the "auto-key card" to do that. I doubt it saves any effort.

No, the only reason to sell or buy one of these things is as a political statement. Call it a non-violent protest. I respect the dude for doing it. I sure as hell wouldn't.

Clearly, he should get off. But in this messed up world we find ourselves in, I wouldn't be surprised to find him sentenced to a century in the clink. The bureaucracy and our psychopathic elected elites are pushing and pushing trying to control their biggest threat, the citizenry. What they don't seem to understand is that people can only be pushed so far before they start pushing back. To quote Fred Thompson as Admiral Painter in Hunt for Red October: "This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it."

If a thin metal card IS a firearm, I will volunteer to face an ATF firing squad armed with these weapons of war. The only way I would be in danger is I someone cut them into Ninja throwing stars... and even then, I might risk it.

Crazytrain said:

The whole key-card thing is a load of ********. A quirky youtuber used to advertise them. I was tempted to buy one once as a "screw you" to The Man, but The Man has the keys to a cage I have no interest in seeing the inside of. I always figured that sooner or later the guy would get busted. If buying one is a "screw you", can you imagine how insulted the the AFT must have been by the sheer gall of someone actually selling the damn things.

In the end it is stupid. He etched a piece of metal with the outline of a lightning link. While I've never seen one in person, it seems clear that it can't just be punched out, and must actually be machined. Well...hell. You don't need the "auto-key card" to do that. I doubt it saves any effort.

No, the only reason to sell or buy one of these things is as a political statement. Call it a non-violent protest. I respect the dude for doing it. I sure as hell wouldn't.

Clearly, he should get off. But in this messed up world we find ourselves in, I wouldn't be surprised to find him sentenced to a century in the clink. The bureaucracy and our psychopathic elected elites are pushing and pushing trying to control their biggest threat, the citizenry. What they don't seem to understand is that people can only be pushed so far before they start pushing back. To quote Fred Thompson as Admiral Painter in Hunt for Red October: "This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it."

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Maybe. Part of the charges include the fact that he structured $68,000 in deposits to his credit union in an attempt to avoid their reporting the transactions. If true, seems like he very much knew what he was doing was in the wrong.

You can be stupid and also think you are clever AF. Which is often the case that people, criminals and otherwise, think they are a whole lot smarter than they really are.

Everything I find is fairly clear the cards are etched and the exact correct dimensions. This isn’t a figurative drawing or scale representation. At best he got too cute. In all likelihood he was intending to sell them so people could convert them or sell them to people who hoped they could convert them and were willing to pay $100 a pop.

Most certainly doesn’t sound like he was trying to do some “noble second amendment audit” BS or anything like that.

The financial part is as likely why he has been held without bail. It shows an intent to hide finances. So prosecutors and the judge likely can’t be all that confident he doesn’t have tens of thousands stashed away somewhere to access and go on the lamb. He probably isn’t a flight risk. But I can’t at least see their perspective, even if I disagree with it.

dontpanic said:

That's a lightning link, not a sear. If you cut that out it is a machine gun.

My guess is that he etched a bit too deep. But you can download scale drawings of this from the internet


I don't think an aluminum lightning link would last very long. They would need to be made from tool steel or it would self distruct pretty quickly. If it ever worked at all

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I’d bet it would work. Not interested enough in winning the bet to try, mind you.

I doubt it would last thousands of rounds. I’d be reasonably confident it could last a few magazines. And doesn’t really matter if it only lasts two rounds according to the law.

As for others assertions on significant machining, a vise, drill, jeweler’s file and a hacksaw and maybe 5 minutes and I am pretty confident I could have a working lightning link from one (as for its long term durability…)

Sure, pulling a drawing from the internet and checking some measurements and I could have one cut out of sheet steel in only a bit more time.

lazarus said:

Maybe. Part of the charges include the fact that he structured $68,000 in deposits to his credit union in an attempt to avoid their reporting the transactions. If true, seems like he very much knew what he was doing was in the wrong.

You can be stupid and also think you are clever AF. Which is often the case that people, criminals and otherwise, think they are a whole lot smarter than they really are.

Everything I find is fairly clear the cards are etched and the exact correct dimensions. This isn’t a figurative drawing or scale representation. At best he got too cute. In all likelihood he was intending to sell them so people could convert them or sell them to people who hoped they could convert them and were willing to pay $100 a pop.

Most certainly doesn’t sound like he was trying to do some “noble second amendment audit” BS or anything like that.

The financial part is as likely why he has been held without bail. It shows an intent to hide finances. So prosecutors and the judge likely can’t be all that confident he doesn’t have tens of thousands stashed away somewhere to access and go on the lamb. He probably isn’t a flight risk. But I can’t at least see their perspective, even if I disagree with it.

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Funny thing...I don't give a crap about how he made his deposits. I don't really like the whole KYC thing anyhow, and think it definitely leans tyrannical. I think the rights of citizens to do their own thing without excessive oversight trumps law enforcements responsibilities at anti money laundering, but that is just me. Even so...what's it prove? Maybe he's a tax cheat. Arrest him for that if you must (but, even then, only if he actually cheated on his taxes, not because he acted suspicious making $9,999 deposits). Maybe he just didn't want to engage in additional governmental snooping. Who knows?

When you say "If true, seems like he very much knew what he was doing was in the wrong" I think we also have to ask what defines "wrong". Illegal? I think that is a pretty marginal call under current laws, and shouldn't even be an issue under the Constitution. I can't believe he was expecting to fly under the radar. He was advertising on at least one YouTube channel. Not exactly stealthy. Immoral? Based on what concept? What makes it wrong? Just because the psychopaths in government think it's a bad thing, and perhaps he was hoping to avoid notice (maybe...though he was public enough I can't believe he thought the Eye of Sauron wouldn't spot him eventually) it doesn't automatically become wrong.

It's possible he was prepared to financially defend himself, but I understand that the government confiscated all his money making paying for legal services difficult.

At the very least I see his arrest affecting his first amendment rights (this is a printed/etched picture of a part, not a part in itself), second amendment rights (even if the ridiculous notion that a representation of a part of a gun is in and of itself a freakin' machine gun, the way I read the 2nd amendment, it shouldn't matter), and sixth amendment rights (what ever happened to a speedy trial?). I'm not really up to speed on the case, but I'd bet money another amendment or two might be implicated as well.

No, even if the real intent was to have people cut these things out and turn their rifles in to machine guns, I just don't see how that is his responsibility. A law might be broken using components he supplied; but that is on the shoulders of the people breaking the law. You could just as easily go after Dremel for selling tools used to cut out the stupid part. This is the same BS that is used to go after gun manufacturers when their guns are used in a crime, or 80% manufacturers because they put together a kit of parts. It's all BS.

I'm a pretty law abiding fellow. But I still get nervous whenever I see a cop. I'm not at all confident that if I have to ever defend myself that I won't be the one arrested. Heck, I keep my mouth freakin' sealed at family events because those liberal loonies are likely to think I'm a dangerous gunny who should be red flagged for my own protection (I asked my sister-in-law, a well compensated corporate attorney BTW, if she was a communist after she went on an epic anti-freedom rant regarding the evils of capitalism, republicans, and those who refuse to wear masks. She had to think for a solid minute before responding that she didn't think so, that she was probably more socialist). Being afraid of your government when all you really want to do is be left alone is a real problem to me.

I have not heard of any of his links being used in crime. Even if they were, that would be on the one's committing the crimes (I'm not talking possessory crimes here, but rather real, honest to God violations of the rights of others kinds of crimes). Liberty must be the default position. This, to me, seems very tyrannical by nature, and whether or not the courts agree, a violation of Constitutional protected natural rights.

outrider58 said:

That's the stupidest thing anyone's ever said to me on this board.

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You don't think that other citizens benefitted from what Rittenhouse went through?

I'm not martyring the kid, but we did tangentially benefit. The guy with the key card "poked the bear" and it will affect other people.

If the key card is considered a machine gun by the ATF then plastic cards of semi auto firearms should be eligible for gun buy backs.

Pretty soon you'll be thrown in jail if you have a rifle and a coat hanger in the trunk together.

cantstop said:

He should have sold them as coat hanger kits.

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Lol, like my buddy machine gun Timmy. Honestly even if he had them punched out wouldn’t they have to be modified to be used as a auto sear? How is that different from a coat hanger?

BTW, machine gun Timmy was not charged for any of the portable wall hanger stuff. They got him for an unregistered suppressor and that his only charge.