Project Fast and Furious Thread

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  • swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    Every semi-auto black rifle is an AK-47 to the Washington Post, even if already identified in other press and by all knowledgeable participants as an AR-15.

    They did try their best to gloss over the issue of ATF letting these guns go. Notice they ignored the chains who had more damning evidence in favor of one who said a single nice thing about ATF.


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    SkunkWerX

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 17, 2010
    1,577
    MoCo/HoCo border
    Let's look at some angles.....

    One question was why would the BATF do this?
    More gun restrictions is good for the entire organization. More laws, more rules more regualtions is more job security, advancement and CONTROL.

    DHS? Same deal, more funding, more political hay. Janet Nappy would be proud. They get a good portion of a BATF consolidation, the funding, the power. But as was pointed out, this could become a really bad thing.
    We thought the BATF was heavy handed?

    Justice Dept? Holder, a super-anti-gunner from way back.
    I'd say he could be the fall guy.
    I'll bet they have already showed him what the underside of bus looks like? :rolleyes:

    FBI? Similar to DHS, they get some of the power and glory too, from a de-balled BATF. More funding, more control. And they get to do the investigation...no politcial conflict of interest there!

    What do all of these entities have in common?
    The Exceutive branch! it boils down to a White House run amok.
    Obama can actually use the deer-in-the-headlights defense and get away with it. What we have is a run-away executive branch. No matter whether it's Far Right Extremists, or Far Left Extremists, Executive over-reach (and the shenanigans that go with it) is ugly.
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    Could simply be bad ideas and execution from an ASAC followed by almost zero review and management from outside the confines of the agency. It sounds like headquarters was aware, but that doesn't mean they told justice. Any political appointee with half a brain (hard to find, admittedly) would have puked if they heard the idea proposed...not hard to see the eventual consequences being bad.

    A lot of bad idea look good on a whiteboard. Sometimes you need smart people outside your unit to look and tell you how dumb it is.
     

    SkunkWerX

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 17, 2010
    1,577
    MoCo/HoCo border
    I'm not necessarily saying any other departments were complicit before it happened, but they all stood to gain from it. Breeding a "look away" behavior by everyone.
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    And I am not challenging anything, either. I've just been one of the people called in (usually by someone in management who got a funny feeling) to look over samrt ideas that were dumb in principle. Usually a few pointed questions and everyone shakes the head and moves on.

    Problems come from insular groups, I think. And for the record, I've done it myself. But I've never done anything as dumb as allowing deadly weapons to move across the border just so I could see what happens next.

    Waiting for the excuses and whitewash on this one. The longer they take to come out, the fewer people who probably knew. Otherwise they would have formulated the story before the press got it. Again...all speculation.

    But what else are we going to do?
     

    SkunkWerX

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 17, 2010
    1,577
    MoCo/HoCo border
    Waiting for the excuses and whitewash on this one. The longer they take to come out, the fewer people who probably knew. Otherwise they would have formulated the story before the press got it. Again...all speculation.

    But what else are we going to do?

    Or, perhaps, if multi-layered, it takes a while to cross-compare stories, identify the scapegoats, and make sure all of the various stories lead to a similar place?

    No matter what, this one is juicy. The longer they wait to weigh in, the juicier it gets.

    Q: Could this breaking story act to deflate some of the hype over the Tucson case?
    Exposing .Gov as trying to invent a problem that is not really there?
     

    Lex Armarum

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 19, 2009
    3,450
    Just an FYI, I've passed all the info in this thread on to a reporter/editor friend at a local news radio station; I've been told it might make the air this weekend.
     

    hvymax

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Apr 19, 2010
    14,011
    Dentsville District 28
    Or, perhaps, if multi-layered, it takes a while to cross-compare stories, identify the scapegoats, and make sure all of the various stories lead to a similar place?

    No matter what, this one is juicy. The longer they wait to weigh in, the juicier it gets.

    Q: Could this breaking story act to deflate some of the hype over the Tucson case?
    Exposing .Gov as trying to invent a problem that is not really there?

    What this exposes is the govt creating an excuse to violate the Constitution.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,365
    SoMD / West PA
    What this exposes is the govt creating an excuse to violate the Constitution.

    This is probably why the ATF had to declare an emergency, to clamping down on long arm sales in the border states. Possibly trying to sweep everything under the rug.
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    Or, perhaps, if multi-layered, it takes a while to cross-compare stories, identify the scapegoats, and make sure all of the various stories lead to a similar place?

    No matter what, this one is juicy. The longer they wait to weigh in, the juicier it gets.

    Q: Could this breaking story act to deflate some of the hype over the Tucson case?
    Exposing .Gov as trying to invent a problem that is not really there?

    We're all just guessing but it might. It's going to be hard to push for more government control of guns when it turns out the government was helping move 500+ "Assault Weapons" into Mexican Cartel hands in likely violation of US, Mexican and international law.

    You realize that is this if right, the US is in contravention of laws regarding the export of arms that could be used to topple a peaceful government?

    I don't know if this blunts the Tuscon high-cap arguments. Different stories. But the administration was obviously angling to use the Mexican Cartels as the strawman argument for greater control in the USA. This kills that.

    Of course, we are all assuming the MSM actually covers the story. They can bury this and then still report on the "US Gun Problem" all they want.

    My Question: Where's Drudge?

    Is he too busy covering the woman who tried to mail a puppy using Priority Mail?
     

    SkunkWerX

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 17, 2010
    1,577
    MoCo/HoCo border
    Patrick,
    I was thinking more along the lines of public opinion, how a new story picks up, and refocusses attention. America's short attention span and all of that.


    Ad to the story, the Inspector General issuing a report in fall '10. All but calling Project Gunrunner a debacle and waste of funds. BATF recently received $81.3 million for Project Gunrunner, and they have.....[drum roll] nabbed 5 Gunrunners and a total of 16 guns. (See source link below for citation.) 16 guns!! 16? not even enough to make a decent pile for journalists to photograph.

    http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/12/robert-farago/atf-project-gunrunner-nets-16-guns-not-shown/

    So, common thought is, that BATF/Project GunRunner was on very thin ice after the IG's report, so they need to show something, anything, and do so quickly. They throw a Hail Mary pass, allow some deals to go through so they can track the people and guns hoping it leads to the MotherLoad?? [conjecture on my part]
    only.....one of the guns may have killed a border patrol agent??
    Ruh roh!

    It looks like the media is still rounding up the story. The Washington Pravda seems to be at the front end of it at this point.
     

    fightinbluhen51

    "Quack Pot Call Honker"
    Oct 31, 2008
    8,974
    My Question: Where's Drudge?

    Is he too busy covering the woman who tried to mail a puppy using Priority Mail?



    Funny you should ask that. I emailed him BOTH the hot sheet links to Miami Herald and Politico about it yesterday. Or well, submitted a news tip to him. Nothing yet. Could be a hit piece he's filtered elsewhere.
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    Skunkwerx: Sounds smart but this would have gone on much longer - the gun that killed the CBP agent in December were sold in January.

    They wanted to build some cases and score some wins. But to do it, they may have broken laws. The cynic in me wonders if they wanted to increase the gun flow just so they could later create regulation to stop it. But would those gun shops have gone along forever?
     

    EL1227

    R.I.P.
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 14, 2010
    20,274
    Politically motivated ???

    I agree that ATF manufactured the whole deal to 'show results', but they didn't do it without some political proding, otherwise why would $80-some-Million have been sent their way to sweeten the operation.

    6 gun runners and 16 weapons seized didn't fit the administration's narrative, so they pushed a few politcal appointees into doing something stupid. Except we're dealing with the 'gang that couldn't shoot straight' when the whole deal went south, resulting in a dead agent and a whistle-blower-fest extraordinaire.

    So now the administration is using the debacle as yet another talking point for gun-control ... "Never let a crisis go to waste" - Rahm Emanuel

    Where's my Stamp ???
     

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