The final SB 281: A detailed summary for non-lawyers

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Mr Bear

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 17, 2013
    1,077
    Maryland
    Great job. Thanks for taking the time to put this in plain English for us "mere mortals".
     

    BenL

    John Galt Speaking.
    One minor concern for #7.

    "firearms possessed as of October 1, 2013, will be grandfathered in, with no registration requirement"

    What if the gun is a 308 AR that was cash and carry? It didn't go through the waiting BS, so does that mean the state would have no record of ownership before 10/1?
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    I wonder how the LTCH training requirement affects the "365" that have applied to MSP post Legg but pre stay..

    Will the training requirement for a LTCH be waived for HD veterans? Probably not know yet but it has me wondering.
     

    boss281

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 14, 2012
    1,575
    Carroll County
    Presumably the lurkers have access to the same documents I do and can read the bill. I am simply explaining what the bill says or does not say on certain points.

    Fair enough, and don't take my comment as criticism. Just thought maybe water cooler a better location for the discussion. Hats off to you for your work and analysis...
     

    Tashtego

    Member
    Jan 6, 2013
    276
    One minor concern for #7.

    "firearms possessed as of October 1, 2013, will be grandfathered in, with no registration requirement"

    What if the gun is a 308 AR that was cash and carry? It didn't go through the waiting BS, so does that mean the state would have no record of ownership before 10/1?


    If pre-SB281 it was cash and carry, that means it was not a "regulated firearm" or a copy thereof. And if it is also not a "copycat" with two of the three evil features, then it is not part of the "assault weapons" ban at all. The key question seems to be whether it was a regulated or copy firearm, really. That question may be the subject of some dispute I think.
     

    BeardedMags

    Member
    Apr 5, 2013
    6
    Anne Arundel County
    Simmons Amendment

    Great info, but still unsure about PBJ's. I've followed all the links, read and re-read each one.

    If I have a one year unsupervised PBJ from 24 years ago related to a violation of a protective order..............

    Someone gonna come a knocking? Do I need to get it Expunged? Am I done in this state and have to move before 1 October?
     

    ddeanjohnson

    autodidact
    Aug 21, 2010
    801
    One minor concern for #7.

    "firearms possessed as of October 1, 2013, will be grandfathered in, with no registration requirement"

    What if the gun is a 308 AR that was cash and carry? It didn't go through the waiting BS, so does that mean the state would have no record of ownership before 10/1?

    If it was cash and carry then it would not be in the state database. The language of the bill does not require a firearm to be in the state database to be grandfathered in. We don't know what the regulations will say. As has been discussed elsewhere, creating documentation of pre-Oct. 1 ownership of any "suspect" firearm is not a bad idea, whether by notarized statements or otherwise.
     

    BDWMS

    Active Member
    Feb 21, 2013
    403
    Howard County
    BeardedMags,

    IANAL but from my understanding from hearing the amendment discussions, you should probably get it expunged. Someone else will probably chime in. I think there's a thread about it somewhere on here...
     

    ddeanjohnson

    autodidact
    Aug 21, 2010
    801
    consult a lawyer

    Great info, but still unsure about PBJ's. I've followed all the links, read and re-read each one.

    If I have a one year unsupervised PBJ from 24 years ago related to a violation of a protective order..............

    Someone gonna come a knocking? Do I need to get it Expunged? Am I done in this state and have to move before 1 October?

    I don't want to offer advice on a personal legal situation -- as I indicated in the OP, you should consult a family-law or criminal-law lawyer, who would examine the exact nature of the offense, whether or not the judge made "a finding of fact, based on evidence produced at trial, as to whether the crime is a domestically related crime," and other factors. He could also advise you regarding the process of expungment -- which, according to statements made in debate on the Simmons Amendment, is often granted in Maryland in PBJ cases, but it is not available in every case.
     

    bohman

    Active Member
    May 20, 2012
    775
    St. Mary's
    Thank you for the summary. Can anyone elaborate on Paragraph 5? What makes a magazine fixed or not? I'm sure this is obvious to most of you, but I'm new to all of this.
     

    ddeanjohnson

    autodidact
    Aug 21, 2010
    801
    I wonder how the LTCH training requirement affects the "365" that have applied to MSP post Legg but pre stay..

    Will the training requirement for a LTCH be waived for HD veterans? Probably not know yet but it has me wondering.

    With respect to carry permits, the training requirement does not apply to "a member, retired member, or honorably discharged member of the armed forces of the United States or the National Guard." There are several other exemptions to the training requirement as well -- law enforcement officers and certain retired law enforcement officers, "a qualified handgun instructor" (which is defined), or someone who "has completed a firearms training course approved by the Secretary."

    My guess would be that after October 1, an application that does not include either proof of completion of the full training or documentation of eligibility for one of the exemptions, will be returned as an incomplete application.
     

    ddeanjohnson

    autodidact
    Aug 21, 2010
    801
    Thank you for the summary. Can anyone elaborate on Paragraph 5? What makes a magazine fixed or not? I'm sure this is obvious to most of you, but I'm new to all of this.

    My understanding is that if it is built into the gun and not easily removed, it is fixed. If you can snap it out for the loading of cartridges, it is detachable. I suppose these terms will be further defined in the MSP regulations.
     

    BeardedMags

    Member
    Apr 5, 2013
    6
    Anne Arundel County
    BeardedMags,

    IANAL but from my understanding from hearing the amendment discussions, you should probably get it expunged. Someone else will probably chime in. I think there's a thread about it somewhere on here...

    I don't want to offer advice on a personal legal situation -- as I indicated in the OP, you should consult a family-law or criminal-law lawyer, who would examine the exact nature of the offense, whether or not the judge made "a finding of fact, based on evidence produced at trial, as to whether the crime is a domestically related crime," and other factors. He could also advise you regarding the process of expungment -- which, according to statements made in debate on the Simmons Amendment, is often granted in Maryland in PBJ cases, but it is not available in every case.

    Thanks, I will be consulting legal counsel soon. I will be Expunging, should have done it years ago. But, reading the law, statues, etc....

    Very good points were made during sessions about those who fell into this mess and the assumptions that are made.
     

    ianmcall

    Active Member
    Sep 21, 2011
    846
    Damascus, MD
    Any word yet one how Stripped Lowers will be treated under the law? Do we have to have them fully built by Oct 1st? Do they have to be built to not be "copy cat"
     

    chetwyman

    Member
    Mar 22, 2013
    39
    adjustable stock

    Was the term "adjustable" removed from the 2 part test? Several versions of the bill had "adjustable or folding stock" as a disqualifier.
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,915
    Messages
    7,258,419
    Members
    33,348
    Latest member
    Eric_Hehl

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom