NRA Basic Pistol Instructor Course

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  • Vision

    Active Member
    Apr 10, 2011
    124
    Havre de Grace, MD
    Hey everyone,

    I'm signed up to take the NRA Basic Pistol Instructor Course tomorrow through Saturday with Ben Kelke, has anyone taken any classes from him? Any thoughts or suggestions I should be aware of before heading in?
     

    fidelity

    piled higher and deeper
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2012
    22,400
    Frederick County
    If you look like your avatar, he will eat you alive. ;) More seriously, he will come off as old school gruff, but really is a dedicated instructor that does a superb job of conveying material. I believe his basic pistol series (2 weeknights and a Saturday) are among the lengthier ones taught as I've seen them for as short as one day elsewhere. As mentioned take your dollar bills; they'll go toward the youth shooting program.
     
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    lx1x

    Peanut Gallery
    Apr 19, 2009
    26,992
    Maryland
    Not NRA class but took another class from Ben. He's a good guy. Very strict on time. I would take another class from him if I have a chance.
     

    Chasbo00

    Active Member
    Jun 30, 2012
    303
    Northern VA
    Let me guess. The "W" word equals "Why" ?

    It's weapon. Despite the NRA trying via several avenues to get into defensive rifle and pistol activities, the old training guard does not want the word weapon used in class, especially by it's prospective instructors.

    Military and LE background folks are usually the ones most apt to say weapon in class.

    Personally, I don't care for PC even if it's from the NRA.
     
    It's weapon. Despite the NRA trying via several avenues to get into defensive rifle and pistol activities, the old training guard does not want the word weapon used in class, especially by it's prospective instructors.

    Military and LE background folks are usually the ones most apt to say weapon in class.

    Personally, I care for PC even if it's from the NRA.

    Understood.
    Funny...weapon was actually my first guess.
     

    CypherPunk

    Opinions Are My Own
    Apr 6, 2012
    3,907
    Weapon
    A weapon is defined as any device used in order to inflict damage or harm to living beings,…

    In NRA Basic Pistol class, we teach the use a firearm. .

    Almost anything can be used as a weapon. Ive used a half full Big Gulp as a weapon.

    There are many reasons I work hard to discourage use of the "w" word, and they all benefit shooters and shooting sports.
     

    Chasbo00

    Active Member
    Jun 30, 2012
    303
    Northern VA
    "Political correctness is a doctrine fostering the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." Author unknown.

    I would have no issue if the NRA wanted its basic pistol class instructors to be precise and say handgun or pistol or revolver as appropriate. Firearm can mean all sorts of odd things. For example, Maryland law defines a blank-only-firing starter gun as a firearm. Saying you can't use the word weapon to refer to a pistol or rifle is like saying the 2nd Amendment only applies to hunting and sport shooting.

    Outlawing just the use of the word weapon is silly and outdated.
     

    woodstock

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jun 28, 2009
    4,172
    well chasbo, we have something to discuss in a meaningful and mature way.

    words; make a difference. in front of 5 and six year olds and their mom or dad, would you prefer to hear, while walking my dog, "sorry my dog took a shit in your front yard," or "sorry my dog took a poo in your front yard," and yes i would pick it up. how about this,i have three bar stools in my dining room, they could be used as offensive weapons at any time i want to knock yer effing head off, but i won't, however, should i invite you to sit on my weapon? point is, anytime you use language that evokes a violent or undesirable image, the liberals have won. they interject the language that dirty's firearm ownership. example; AR-15 to a liberal is an Assault Rifle, because of the caps in AR, it becomes a demon. words my friend, can dictate laws, as we have witnessed. :smoke:

    "Political correctness is a doctrine fostering the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." Author unknown.

    I would have no issue if the NRA wanted its basic pistol class instructors to be precise and say handgun or pistol or revolver as appropriate. Firearm can mean all sorts of odd things. For example, Maryland law defines a blank-only-firing starter gun as a firearm. Saying you can't use the word weapon to refer to a pistol or rifle is like saying the 2nd Amendment only applies to hunting and sport shooting.

    Outlawing just the use of the word weapon is silly and outdated.
     

    Chasbo00

    Active Member
    Jun 30, 2012
    303
    Northern VA
    To me, weapon is not a dirty word. I also don't assume a negative connotation regarding the word just because a weapon can be used for offensive as well as defensive purposes.

    I was born in the first half of the last century. When I first learned to shoot a rifle at about the age of six at an NRA sponsored class, I recall the instructor telling us that a rifle could be a deadly weapon if it were not properly and safely used - get careless and you could die or you could kill someone accidentally. This obviously made his point stick with me since I still remember it today. Back then, the world weapon did not have the apparent stigma and negative connotation it has today. Why is this? Why has the word weapon become something to be avoided? And, what's next, the word pistol or perhaps even shotgun? I suspect to some, these words are already just like weapon and their use is to be avoided. Nope, I just don't care for PC - in any of its forms.
     

    madmattmd

    Active Member
    Aug 17, 2006
    254
    The Frozen North
    You’ll enjoy the course and get your money’s worth. Ben is an excellent Instructor and probably has more time in front of basic classes than anyone else in Maryland (other than folks that make their living doing this). Come early, come prepared. You will be amazed at how your time management skills are developed.

    BTW, show up on Saturday with a handgun that WORKS with ammo that you know WORKS in that gun. I am constantly amazed at Instructor candidates that appear with guns that won’t function, ammo that won’t function, or, this is priceless, a new (or new to them) gun that they have never shot (or cleaned and oiled) before. WTF?

    Regarding the use of the word “weapon” in NRA classes, it is my opinion that words must be used to change minds. Language is being used against us as responsible gun owners every day. In basic classes, the NRA teaches the use of firearms, period. There is no part of the basic course that discusses offensive and defensive use of firearms. I’m one of the least PC people that you will ever meet but why not use your tools to inform? If we, as shooters, don’t take every opportunity to educate then we’ve lost.

    Matt Guilfoyle
     

    Chasbo00

    Active Member
    Jun 30, 2012
    303
    Northern VA
    If we, as shooters, don’t take every opportunity to educate then we’ve lost.

    Well, I certainly agree with that statement. But, let's take a look at this a little more closely.

    The Colt 1911, Smith and Wesson Model 10 Revolver, German Luger, Browning Hi Power, CZ 75, Smith and Wesson M&P, and even the Taurus Judge are all handguns specifically designed and intended to be used as weapons. Fact is, most pistols are designed and intended to be used as weapons. Pretending otherwise will not make it so. The positive aspect is that these weapons are intended to be used primarily, even by the military and LE, for defensive purposes. Used properly, they are life saving tools for the good guys including civilians concerned with home and personal defense.

    Beginning in about 1995, a ground swell of efforts began to get the states to pass laws making a handgun carry permit available to citizens. Today, only DC has no provision for obtaining one and those states that are may-issue rather than shall-issue are few. Hopefully, MD will soon join the ranks of shall-issue states. All this came about by citizens demanding their right to defend themselves. Resorting to some PC new-speak because some would demonize the word weapon and prohibiting use of the word in a training class is the wrong way to go.

    Why are people attending your basic pistol class? I don't think very many are there because they are interested in hunting with a pistol or becoming a handgun target shooter. I'll bet the vast majority are there because they are interested in acquiring some handgun skills and knowledge for self defense purposes. I think it's important to recognize and understand this.

    Is saying the word weapon in an NRA basic pistol class really a training sin? For example, a student might ask if the Colt 1873 Single Action Army was adopted primarily as a weapon for cavalry soldiers. Or, perhaps a student recounts a news article he recently read about someone being charged with carrying a concealed weapon and has a handgun related question. How does putting a jar in the front of the classroom and having the instructor and class at large play BS bingo and then yell; "you said the W word - pay up" help the cause whenever someone says weapon for any reason, regardless of how technically correct and legitimate the word use was? Why not also outlaw saying Gat, Rosco, Heater, Burner or any other number of popular but stigmatized urban words meaning a handgun?

    So, I've said my piece. If you are an instructor, use the technically correct and more precise words, such as handgun, pistol and revolver when referring to those things - I'm all for that. But, putting a fine jar in the front of the class and ridiculing those who say the world weapon; sorry, that's not only silly, it's disingenuous and often just plain incorrect.
     
    Last edited:

    Polecat

    R.I.P.
    Feb 4, 2008
    3,967
    Southern Maryland
    Well, I certainly agree with that statement. But, let's take a look at this a little more closely.

    The Colt 1911, Smith and Wesson Model 10 Revolver, German Luger, Browning Hi Power, CZ 75, Smith and Wesson M&P, and even the Taurus Judge are all handguns specifically designed and intended to be used as weapons. Fact is, most pistols are designed and intended to be used as weapons. Pretending otherwise will not make it so. The positive aspect is that these weapons are intended to be used primarily, even by the military and LE, for defensive purposes. Used properly, they are life saving tools for the good guys including civilians concerned with home and personal defense.

    Beginning in about 1995, a ground swell of efforts began to get the states to pass laws making a handgun carry permit available to citizens. Today, only DC has no provision for obtaining one and those states that are may-issue rather than shall-issue are few. Hopefully, MD will soon join the ranks of shall-issue states. All this came about by citizens demanding their right to defend themselves. Resorting to some PC new-speak because some would demonize the word weapon and prohibiting use of the word in a training class is the wrong way to go.

    Why are people attending your basic pistol class? I don't think very many are there because they are interested in hunting with a pistol or becoming a handgun target shooter. I'll bet the vast majority are there because they are interested in acquiring some handgun skills and knowledge for self defense purposes. I think it's important to recognize and understand this.

    Is saying the word weapon in an NRA basic pistol class really a training sin? For example, a student might ask if the Colt 1873 Single Action Army was adopted primarily as a weapon for cavalry soldiers. Or, perhaps a student recounts a news article he recently read about someone being charged with carrying a concealed weapon and has a handgun related question. How does putting a jar in the front of the classroom and having the instructor and class at large play BS bingo and then yell; "you said the W word - pay up" help the cause whenever someone says weapon for any reason, regardless of how technically correct and legitimate the word use was? Why not also outlaw saying Gat, Rosco, Heater, Burner or any other number of popular but stigmatized urban words meaning a handgun?

    So, I've said my piece. If you are an instructor, use the technically correct and more precise words, such as handgun, pistol and revolver when referring to those things - I'm all for that. But, putting a fine jar in the front of the class and ridiculing those who say the world weapon; sorry, that's not only silly, it's disingenuous and often just plain incorrect.
    Call it what you want. I have taken his class and it is awesome. He explains why the "W" word is not used and it is his class. Get over it.:mad54:
     

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