270win Reloading Issue

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  • ChefD51

    Member
    Jan 1, 2014
    3
    I am reloading rounds for my Savage 270. I am having an issue after shooting a round I have to use a dead blow to get the casing to eject. The obvious things have been checked, case length, COAL is well with in. I'm using IMR 4320 46gr Serra 130gr Game King bullets. The min charge is 45.7 and the max is 47. I need to know what I am either doing wrong or am missing when I am reloading.
    Thanks for all your help!
     

    ChefD51

    Member
    Jan 1, 2014
    3
    A few times it has been but for the most part the bolt opens fine but won't eject w/o a heavy bump.
    This may sound dumb but how do I check the head space?
    All the casings come out w/o noticeable marks on them.
    Looking forward to hearing back from you! Thanks!
     
    You check headspace on the action with a go/no go/field gauge set. More likely, you are not setting back the shoulder enough while resizing the brass. You check headspace on brass with a different kind headspace guage. You can check the amount of setback on your resized brass with another guage.

    Has this brass been fired from that rifle before?

    Headspace go/no go/field gauges:

    http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby=1&itemsperpage=24&newcategorydimensionid=1132

    Cartridge Headspace and length gauge:

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/676076/le-wilson-case-length-headspace-gage-270-winchester

    Cartridge Headspace bushing set (can be bought individually):

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/47...-headspace-gage-5-bushing-set-with-comparator
     

    diesel-man

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 8, 2009
    1,348
    I am reloading rounds for my Savage 270. I am having an issue after shooting a round I have to use a dead blow to get the casing to eject. The obvious things have been checked, case length, COAL is well with in. I'm using IMR 4320 46gr Serra 130gr Game King bullets. The min charge is 45.7 and the max is 47. I need to know what I am either doing wrong or am missing when I am reloading.
    Thanks for all your help!

    Do you "full length resize" or "neck size only"? There are two kinds of dies, two "camps" of thought. If you can shoot factory rounds with no problem, but reloaded rounds are tight...

    My first edition Modern Reloading (LEE) says 41.1 starting load, max 46. My Second edition LEE, says 40.5 starting, 45.5 gr max. (IMR4320 130gr jacketed bullet.)

    :party29:
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    From Hodgdon page:

    130 GR. HDY SP IMR IMR 4320 .277" 3.180" 45.6 2850 48,600 CUP 47.0 2916 50,200 CUP

    135 GR. SIE BT IMR IMR 4320 .277" 3.340" 43.0 2718 43,500 CUP 46.5 2887 50,300 CUP
     

    Deep Creek Rock

    .._. .._ _._. _._ .._
    does the rifle work with factory rounds, any pictures of cases?

    This is what I want to know. What happens when you fire factory loaded rounds, or has the rifle never been used with those?

    A sticky, or difficult to open bolt is not a good sign, and can be an indication of too high pressure. Headspacing can affect that if it is not correct. That can be a rifle problem (happens with NIB rifles with incorrect cut chambers or other issues) or can be a die or die setting issue.
     

    ChefD51

    Member
    Jan 1, 2014
    3
    This is what I want to know. What happens when you fire factory loaded rounds, or has the rifle never been used with those?

    A sticky, or difficult to open bolt is not a good sign, and can be an indication of too high pressure. Headspacing can affect that if it is not correct. That can be a rifle problem (happens with NIB rifles with incorrect cut chambers or other issues) or can be a die or die setting issue.
    I have had the gun for over 20 years and have never had any problems with any factory ammo at all. This just started with the reloads I produced. These are the first loads I made for the gun and that's when the sticky bolt started but factory ammo is still fine through the gun.
    I have a set of RBCS F L 270win Dies
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    If factory are OK, and your reloads are causing a sticky or hard to open bolt, you are over pressure.

    One thing to double check, do the rounds cycle fine (no sticky bolt) without firing? If so, over pressure.

    If not, then you are not sizing them properly.
     

    Deep Creek Rock

    .._. .._ _._. _._ .._
    Also bear in mind not ALL 130 grain bullets will have the same COL. COL is bullet brand specific, as ogive can start in different areas on same weight bullets- but different brands.

    If you look in Hodgdons load data, the abbreviations by the bullet will list a specific bullet make. If you have a reloading manual from a specific bullet company (Nosler, Hornady, Speer etc) the load data is for THEIR bullets, and not really generic data. The biggest difference you will see is the listed COL.

    Id make sure you are not pushing a bullet into the lands which can spike case pressure. In addition if you are loading bullets too long, your gun can become a bullet puller if you eject an unfired round - the bullet can stick in the lands, and the rest of the case pulls off it from the bolt being pushed back when you unchamber a round. You also end up with a gun full of unfired powder.

    You may want to make a dummy round with a full length sized case, seated to the recommended COL. Dont prime, or charge the case at all (leave the primer out) See if the cartridge, freely chambers from the mag follower, and freely ejects. If the case does so, look at the bullet, and make sure they are no rifling marks, which means you are seating the bullet into the lands. If everything looks fine, and opens & closes fine, then I would suspect a pressure issue, or maybe even a die issue.

    When you full length size your case - make sure you take out all the freeplay from the bottom of the die to the shell holder. Set your die so that the press cams over, when the shellholder presses against the die bottom.

    Also make sure your cases are trimmed to specs!
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    When you full length size your case - make sure you take out all the freeplay from the bottom of the die to the shell holder. Set your die so that the press cams over, when the shellholder presses against the die bottom.

    Rest was good info.

    But this may not always be true, if you set the die to just bump the shoulder back 1 - 2 thousandths for bolt rifles, 3 - 5 for gas guns.

    Setting the die to cam over with a standard die and standard shell holder, you will be over sizing your brass, leading to short life. This will size to near SAMMI minimum size specs.

    Best is to get the Redding competition shell holders that add height to the top of the shell holder so you can cam over and have the right shoulder bump.

    Like this:

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/52...set-1-308-winchester-30-06-springfield-45-acp
     

    Deep Creek Rock

    .._. .._ _._. _._ .._
    Rest was good info.

    But this may not always be true, if you set the die to just bump the shoulder back 1 - 2 thousandths for bolt rifles, 3 - 5 for gas guns.

    Setting the die to cam over with a standard die and standard shell holder, you will be over sizing your brass, leading to short life. This will size to near SAMMI minimum size specs.

    Best is to get the Redding competition shell holders that add height to the top of the shell holder so you can cam over and have the right shoulder bump.

    Like this:

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/52...set-1-308-winchester-30-06-springfield-45-acp

    You dont NEED that shit. A regular FL sizing die will work fine. The point of my post was to eliminate possibles, not recommend a bunch of shit the OP dosnt need.

    RCBS recommends cam over with their FL dies, as per instructions. The OP already stated he has a set of RCBS FL dies.

    That being said Ive camed over many brass in various guns, and the brass still lasts along time.
     

    sxs

    Senior Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 20, 2009
    3,378
    Anne Arundel County, MD
    Also bear in mind not ALL 130 grain bullets will have the same COL. COL is bullet brand specific, as ogive can start in different areas on same weight bullets- but different brands.

    If you look in Hodgdons load data, the abbreviations by the bullet will list a specific bullet make. If you have a reloading manual from a specific bullet company (Nosler, Hornady, Speer etc) the load data is for THEIR bullets, and not really generic data. The biggest difference you will see is the listed COL.

    Id make sure you are not pushing a bullet into the lands which can spike case pressure. In addition if you are loading bullets too long, your gun can become a bullet puller if you eject an unfired round - the bullet can stick in the lands, and the rest of the case pulls off it from the bolt being pushed back when you unchamber a round. You also end up with a gun full of unfired powder.

    You may want to make a dummy round with a full length sized case, seated to the recommended COL. Dont prime, or charge the case at all (leave the primer out) See if the cartridge, freely chambers from the mag follower, and freely ejects. If the case does so, look at the bullet, and make sure they are no rifling marks, which means you are seating the bullet into the lands. If everything looks fine, and opens & closes fine, then I would suspect a pressure issue, or maybe even a die issue.

    When you full length size your case - make sure you take out all the freeplay from the bottom of the die to the shell holder. Set your die so that the press cams over, when the shellholder presses against the die bottom.

    Also make sure your cases are trimmed to specs!


    It sounds like a pressure issue. I usually start at or near the minimum charge listed and work up. Given Pine Cones quote from Hornady, 45.7 sounds like it SHOULDN'T be a problem. All things considered, the highlighted sounds like a real possibility. If you take the suggestion of a dummy round, go one further and use a candle to smoke the bullet. The reason? Just because the bullet isn't scored doesn't mean it's not right up against the lands. As Deep Creek stated, pressure can spike when you push a bullet into the lands, BUT!! it might not score the bullet enough to see if you are just about flush with the lands. The smoke from a candle comes off so easily, you will see something if that is the issue.

    Since factory does work for you, try measuring every dimension of a factory round and compare it to your reloads. Occasionally with some rifles, you need a small base die to reload for a specific rifle. However, that would often would be noticed when chambering the cartridge as it may take an extra effort...sometimes slight...sometimes 'forcing'... to chamber the round (not always...and small base is used for extraction issues more often than chambering issues). Sticky extraction, from my experience, is one of 2 or 3 most common signs of being over pressure. You might want to check your primers to see if there is any cratering or some flattening. If you're not sure what to look for, check one of your fired factory cases and compare. Cratering is simply a little bit of metal that is sticking up around the primer strike. The primer metal will slightly wrap around the firing pin. Flattening is just what it says. If that is happening, you should see part of the rounding of the edges of the primer made flatter. Those are also pressure signs that I usually see before sticky extraction. One last thing...just a thought: make sure to remove all traces of case lube. I have never experienced it myself (I usually wipe each case after loading while I am boxing them)...and it seems counter-intuitive to me, but some say they have experienced a sticky extraction due to some residue still on cartridge.
     

    On_Target

    Active Member
    Feb 7, 2013
    222
    Jerry M has a point

    Throw those cases away and start again with a minimum load and work up.

    Good luck

    Jerry

    Fine points made by all.

    My suspicion would be that the case is the culprit. The cases that you are using may be fatigued or the metallurgical formula is inhibiting rebound. There is a fairly simple explanation for a dynamic event. (Your cases ain't springy enough if yer pressures ain't changed none). The old standards for case manufacturing are deteriorating at the same rate that the institutional memory does. When the older industry insiders leave their jobs or retire a lot of why things are done traditionally gets overlooked. I often see contempt for these "old school" practices and newer companies are reexamining everything in an attempt to maintain a competitive edge. Case specifications and tolerances in manufacturing practices are one of the areas that I have found has been a challenge for me. I have to provide very consistent performance in a clinical setting and as a result I have had to cull every case in new and exciting ways at the labs. I suspect that the cases are your weak spot. Start there since it is the most likely and cheapest solution. Your pressures should be within SAAMI guidelines and if that is the situation then there is likely little else that it should be since your rifle has already been a proven entity.
    At high strain rate activity the brass will behave more like a non-newtonian fluid than a solid. Metallurgical aberrations or mild formula variations may present uncharacteristic performance during dynamic events like shooting your rifle. The slow decline from using a more historical rose colored brass to a silvery toned brass are hand in glove with these problems (each group uses different elements to obtain a cheaper case). Manufacturers are responding to your wanting a cheaper product while the commodities to make them are increasing in price and decreasing in availability. They are trying to find that edge of performance that gets it done as best as time and money permits. Some groups are better at doing this and others aren't. Ironically though, when they do and don't get it right is constantly changing from who and when. Tough to keep tabs on it. Keep track of lot #'s and D.O.M's and don't be afraid to ask for replacements. My experience has been awesome in most instances if you can speak intelligently to what's not working. Good luck. Please let us know what fixes your problem, I am eager to hear.
     

    coopermania

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 20, 2011
    3,815
    Indiana
    ARE YOU f' ing kidding me ? Your first paragraph and a half should be in purple. I don't even know where to start with what you are saying. He is not working in a lab he is trying to find out why his bolt is hard to open. There is only a few option's to fix that problem . The loaded ammo or brass is to long or he has a over pressure I with using to much powder. So Sheldon Cooper let's just keep it more like Duck Dynasty and everybody will understand your micro management.
    And for the love of god don't use (Your cases ain't springy enough if yer pressures ain't changed none) and non-Newtonian fluid in the same post it just because it just makes springy enough sound cheap.
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,667
    Not Far Enough from the City
    I'll take a stab at your question.....

    I THINK what he's trying to say is that most of us in the reloading forum aren't metallurgists. If I understand your post correctly, and I read it several times, you suspect brass fatigue as the OP's problem. That is, the cases don't have sufficient elasticity to release from the chamber wall after peak pressure subsides upon firing. Hence, they are difficult to extract.

    Short of a more probable die setting issue IMO given what I surmise to be a newer reloader, you may indeed be absolutely correct. But respectfully sir, can you "dumb your thoughts down" a bit?

    Your target audience? They run the gamut from experienced reloaders to those who may have an interest in the hobby, but have zero experience with it. You're speaking Greek to many who may not be operating presses in Athens. :)
     

    On_Target

    Active Member
    Feb 7, 2013
    222
    I'll take a stab at your question.....

    I THINK what he's trying to say is that most of us in the reloading forum aren't metallurgists. If I understand your post correctly, and I read it several times, you suspect brass fatigue as the OP's problem. That is, the cases don't have sufficient elasticity to release from the chamber wall after peak pressure subsides upon firing. Hence, they are difficult to extract.

    Short of a more probable die setting issue IMO given what I surmise to be a newer reloader, you may indeed be absolutely correct. But respectfully sir, can you "dumb your thoughts down" a bit?

    Your target audience? They run the gamut from experienced reloaders to those who may have an interest in the hobby, but have zero experience with it. You're speaking Greek to many who may not be operating presses in Athens. :)


    Well thanks Uncle Duke. I appreciate your candor. Thanks for the translate, will do! Happy New year
     

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