So, tell me about the factory crimp die

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  • Johnnyeastside

    Active Member
    Jun 8, 2009
    359
    Abingdon
    I've been thinking about reloading 9mm and researching entry level products. Looking at Lee presses and considering the Progressive that uses 3 dies, or the Anniv. Kit that you can use the 4 die set with, or even the handloader.
    What does that mean to me?
     

    J.Brown

    Active Member
    Apr 3, 2008
    486
    Hampstead
    do you have any reloading experiance, dosnt appear so but thought i would ask? i started with a Lee loadmaster 5 stage progressive. it took a while to get it set up but i like to know how and why thigs work. it took about 500 .44mag rounds to get it straightend out but know i can do a thousan rounds in an evening. i havent got to 9mm yet only .44mag, .223, and .45 auto, i have the supplys for .40sw but have to finish the 45 first. switching calibers takes about 30-45 minutes. my press came set up for .44 mag and it cost some were around $350. i made my money back after the first 500 .44's. imo even if you dont stick with it do enough to pay for the press and youve lost nothing. fall in love with rollin your own and youll go shoot just to reload. i use lee for all my dies etc, you break something, send it back and they replace it no questions asked. their shipping is a $4.00 "service" charge, small orders you get stroked, large orders are worth it. check out www.leeprecision.com i order everything right from there.
     

    j8064

    Garrett Co Hooligan #1
    Feb 23, 2008
    11,635
    Deep Creek
    Needing a "factory crimp die" depends on what you're loading, what firearm you intend to shoot your loads in and what your expectations are. Crimps for long gun and hand gun ammo can be very different

    For example, if I'm loading large bottle neck rifle rounds where the bullet has no cannelure, I prefer to use a crimp die so I'm comfortable the slug is locked into place. For some pistol ammo like .380, a simple crimp a seating die produces is fine for my needs. On the other hand I shoot 9mm in several different guns so I run my loads through a factory crimp die. I'm confident they'll feed and chamber corrrectly as they always have.

    You can read a little more about Lee's factory crimp dies here:
    http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1251428487.1721=/html/catalog/dies-crimp.html
     

    Johnnyeastside

    Active Member
    Jun 8, 2009
    359
    Abingdon
    Yes, I have no experience. Just started looking into it for the past few months. I'm a mechanic and fabricator so the idea of reloading seems like a good hobby for me in addition to the other benefits. Right now i have one 9mm handgun. I want the ammo for training classes and practice I've also considered reloading for 12g, but target shells are so cheap. Maybe later.
     

    Trapper

    I'm a member too.
    Feb 19, 2009
    1,369
    Western AA county
    The 3-die Lee progressive is the Pro 1000. I have two of these, one for .45 and one for .38. The nice thing about them is they are cheap and come with everything for the caliber. The bad thing about them is.... well, I haven't found that yet. :D

    After about 2000 rounds of both calibers, I am very happy and don't believe I'm missing anything by not having a factory crimp die.

    I can do 200 rounds of .45 in about 40 minutes, and that is plenty for me. The low price and sound engineering is why I bought the first one, and at $160 I figured "why mess with switching dies and shell plates" and just bought a second.

    As everything you will read says, keep the primer trough full and clean and you'll be fine.
     

    Fustercluck

    Active Member
    Aug 4, 2008
    776
    Eastern Shore
    A dedicated crimp die is intended for progressive presses that have a station for crimping, after the bullet is seated at an earlier station. If you are going to load single stage, then the crimp die is neither needed nor particularly desirable. All 9mm 3-die sets I can think of utilize, as the third and final step, a bullet seater die that also taper crimps the round. Adding a little taper crimp to autoloaded handgun ammo is a good idea, to keep the bullets from creeping while in the magazine.
    For all practical purposes, it doesn't really matter with autoloading handgun reloads whether you crimp while seating, or crimp seperately.
     

    Johnnyeastside

    Active Member
    Jun 8, 2009
    359
    Abingdon
    There is no need to spend the extra money unless I'm using a 4 hole press, correct.
    I just couldn't tell. They sell 3 die sets and 4 die sets and the only difference listed is the factory crimp die.
     

    Trapper

    I'm a member too.
    Feb 19, 2009
    1,369
    Western AA county
    Even then, its really personal preference to whether you would use it or not. I have had no detrimental effects to using the seat/crimp die.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    The factory crimp die does crimp, but it also post sizes in handgun calibers, and that is perhaps the best reason to use it especialy for autoloading pistols. If you load bulk ammo, espacially with mixed headstamps, there is always some differences in thickness, and length. If you set a progressive up, some cases may not be uniform in thickness, and can be thinner on one side, and when the bullet seats, it bulges the thin side of the brass. You can also run into problems where seating longer heavier bullets that bulge a thick case a little. You would have a hard time seeing these minr imperfections, but they can cause jams in tight chambers. The post sizing function of the factory crimp die sizes the round to SAAMI specs, and irons out any slight bulges in order to help with reliable feeding with cheapskate loads. Not as much of an issue if you sort your brass by headstamp, and use good brass.


    LEE bullet seater/crimp dies also are notorious for producing uneven crimps in revolver cartridges, especially when you are going for a heavy roll crimp. The case locates on the bullet ogive, and as I said, the case is not always concentric, leading to a heavier crimp on the thicker side of the case, and a lighter crimp on the thin side. The case is also not supported at all, and buckles easily. The factory crimp die locates on the case, and not the bullet, so the crimp is concentric to the case, and the crimp ends up being much more even.

    I only have 3 hole progressives, so I adjust the bullet seater die to just flatten the belled case mouth, and not really crimp it, then run them through a single stage for the factory crimp, while performing a final check for cracks or damaged cases I might have missed before sizing. Of course a 4 or 5 hole turret or progressive will post size/crimp before the round spits out.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    The 'old school' line of thought is for people new to handloading to start off with single stage set up, so as to become fully aware of all the details and variables of each step in the process .
    With the standard LEE seat/ crimp I "generally " was able to get good results within certain perameters. ie good quality consistant brass, bullets of typical length, mainstream crimp requirements.
    Extra long/ deep bullets, extra heavy crimps/ extra tight neck tension require something different. The ultimate pure crimp die is the Redding Profile Die. The LEE Factory Crimp is almost as good, and the post sizing handles most problems with inconsistant brass not chambering (accuracy something else) , and bulging from deep seating.
    When my long distance handloading partner is making some extra heavy , slow powder magnum revolver loads, or just generally being obsesive, will use will initial size, flare etc, with first too LEE dies, seat with Redding competion micrometer seating die, crimp with Redding Profile, and finish with LEE factory crimp. It doesn't add anything to what was already done by the Profile die, but does smooth out any case bulge.
    Which is kind of off topic for OP, since the whole point was for rookie hadloaders to become familiar with all the steps of 'normal' loading before going on to either advannced or high volume loading.
     

    GSpot

    Member
    Aug 11, 2009
    7
    9 mm headspaces off the case mouth and, therefore, the case should not be roll-crimped; a taper-crimp can be used. Test case neck tension by pushing bullet of the loaded round against your work bench. If the bullet is easily moved adjust your taper crimp.

    The roll-crimp is use for revolvers and not semi-autos.

    Also remember to trim case to length. (.754).

    Lee makes a good 3 die set for 9mm at a reasonable price.

    Sorry this is late, but I just joined.
     
    Last edited:

    [Kev308]

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 23, 2020
    3,797
    Maryland
    I got items in my cart and I have the same exact question. I am planning on getting a Lee 4 hole turret reloader, and I have 4 die carbide sets of 357 mag and 44 mag, but could only find a 3 die set for 308win.

    Is the FCD prefered or not on revolver cartridges?

    Other than more money, is the 4th die something I will regret not having as I get more into reloading in the future?
     

    missedthebarn

    Member
    Jan 1, 2021
    76
    I learned on a single stage with an emphasis on consistency especially for rifle rounds. I use my Lee 4 hole exclusively for plinking semiauto pistol rounds. Cranking out a few hundred while watching a bad move is a breeze when you get the flow, but the drum powder measure is erratic.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    I learned on a single stage with an emphasis on consistency especially for rifle rounds. I use my Lee 4 hole exclusively for plinking semiauto pistol rounds. Cranking out a few hundred while watching a bad move is a breeze when you get the flow, but the drum powder measure is erratic.

    The question was about the need for a factory crimp die. Do you use one for your rifle rounds?
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,810
    [Kev308];6354335 said:
    I got items in my cart and I have the same exact question. I am planning on getting a Lee 4 hole turret reloader, and I have 4 die carbide sets of 357 mag and 44 mag, but could only find a 3 die set for 308win.

    Is the FCD prefered or not on revolver cartridges?

    Other than more money, is the 4th die something I will regret not having as I get more into reloading in the future?

    If you are loading .308 for more than one gun or a semi-auto gun, you should be fine with the three die set. If you are loading for only one bolt gun, then I would get the four die set.
     

    [Kev308]

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 23, 2020
    3,797
    Maryland
    If you are loading .308 for more than one gun or a semi-auto gun, you should be fine with the three die set. If you are loading for only one bolt gun, then I would get the four die set.

    What makes that determination? Does the FCD hinder chambering semi auto?
    I do have a bolt, and a semi 308.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,810
    [Kev308];6354415 said:
    What makes that determination? Does the FCD hinder chambering semi auto?
    I do have a bolt, and a semi 308.

    No. If I'm not mistaken, the FCD comes in both kits. I believe the 4th die is a neck sizing die. When you use bolt guns, often times your brass is 'fireformed' to that particular chamber. The only thing you resize is the neck of the cartridge. this method is done for increased accuracy and minimal work hardening.

    If you load for semi-autos, you need to full length resize, returning the brass back to factory size. This is done to insure reliable feeding and cycling in semi and fully automatic guns.

    https://leeprecision.com/308-win-ultimate-die-set.html

    https://leeprecision.com/pacesetter-dies-308-win.html

    Good video descriptions of both sets.
     

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