Application for Handgun Permit (concealed carry)

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  • Josh123

    Member
    May 27, 2012
    7
    On the MD application for a handgun permit (to carry a concealed weapon) it asks you to list if you have ever been arrested for a violation of a criminal law and if you have ever been charged with the violation of any crime.

    I was arrested for a violation of a criminal law and had three charges brought against me 5 years ago. The state did NOT prosecute me (nolle pros) and dropped all three charges (DUI/DWI/Negligent Driving). A few months after the court date (4.5 years ago) I had all police records and court records expunged (and I have the proof of this).

    Do I need to answer yes to those two questions (arrested and charged) considering all police and court records pertaining to that incident were expunged?

    I know that whoever answers this question is most likely not a lawyer and I will NOT rely upon your answer as legal advice. Thank you in advance for your help!

    Josh
     

    MDFF2008

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 12, 2008
    24,735
    I"m going to differ because I think the devil is in the details.

    The question asks: "Have you ever been arrested?" Not "have you ever been convicted?"

    Most job applications ask "have you been convicted?" to which you could answer no if you got noll pros and expungement.

    Better to be honest.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    You answered your question in your own question. Don't bother asking us for an answer that is *probably* correct. Consult an Atty who is experience in dealing w/ Md gun issues. At least one is an active member here.
     

    dlmcbm

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 5, 2011
    1,207
    Sabillasville, Md.
    I"m going to differ because I think the devil is in the details.

    The question asks: "Have you ever been arrested?" Not "have you ever been convicted?"

    Most job applications ask "have you been convicted?" to which you could answer no if you got noll pros and expungement.

    Better to be honest.

    :thumbsup:

    When it comes to these apps--when in doubt put it on the paper. It's better to have it on there then to have them ask you why you did not put it on there. please read my signature also LOL
     

    Straightshooter

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 28, 2010
    5,015
    Baltimore County
    This subject has been covered extensively somewhere by I'm too lazy to search for it so here's the infor you need. Remember, the purpose of expungement is to make an indescretion of the past go away.

    2010 Maryland Code
    CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
    TITLE 10 - CRIMINAL RECORDS
    Subtitle 1 - Expungement of Police and Court Records
    Section 10-109 - Prohibited acts.

    (a) Applications for employment or admission.-

    (1) Disclosure of expunged information about criminal charges in an application, interview, or other means may not be required:

    (i) by an employer or educational institution of a person who applies for employment or admission; or

    (ii) by a unit, official, or employee of the State or a political subdivision of the State of a person who applies for a license, permit, registration, or governmental service.

    (2) A person need not refer to or give information concerning an expunged charge when answering a question concerning:

    (i) a criminal charge that did not result in a conviction
    ; or

    (ii) a conviction that the Governor pardoned.

    (3) Refusal by a person to disclose information about criminal charges that have been expunged may not be the sole reason for:

    (i) an employer to discharge or refuse to hire the person; or

    (ii) a unit, official, or employee of the State or a political subdivision of the State to deny the person's application.

    (b) Penalties.-

    (1) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to a fine not exceeding $1,000 or imprisonment not exceeding 1 year or both for each violation.

    (2) In addition to the penalties provided in paragraph (1) of this subsection, an official or employee of the State or a political subdivision of the State who is convicted under this section may be removed or dismissed from public service.
     

    ericahls

    Active Member
    Aug 31, 2011
    672
    Elkridge MD
    On the MD application for a handgun permit (to carry a concealed weapon) it asks you to list if you have ever been arrested for a violation of a criminal law and if you have ever been charged with the violation of any crime.

    I was arrested for a violation of a criminal law and had three charges brought against me 5 years ago. The state did NOT prosecute me (nolle pros) and dropped all three charges (DUI/DWI/Negligent Driving). A few months after the court date (4.5 years ago) I had all police records and court records expunged (and I have the proof of this).

    Do I need to answer yes to those two questions (arrested and charged) considering all police and court records pertaining to that incident were expunged?

    I know that whoever answers this question is most likely not a lawyer and I will NOT rely upon your answer as legal advice. Thank you in advance for your help!

    Josh

    I had a similar situation. The trooper told me that they view those arrests as if they didn't happen.

    Put it on the app though. It won't hurt to have it but might hurt you for lying.
     

    Straightshooter

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 28, 2010
    5,015
    Baltimore County
    I completely disagree. You have things expunged so as to remove them from your records permanently. If you give this information willingly to the MSP on your app you are entering it back into their records with no way to ever remove it again.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
     

    Darkemp

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 18, 2009
    7,808
    Marylandistan
    ericahls said:
    I had a similar situation. The trooper told me that they view those arrests as if they didn't happen.

    Put it on the app though. It won't hurt to have it but might hurt you for lying.

    +1. Helps to be honest, might hurt to be caught in a lie even if expunged.
     

    Darkemp

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 18, 2009
    7,808
    Marylandistan
    Straightshooter said:
    How can it be considered a lie if the law says they can't ask and you can't be required to disclose expunged information?

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

    It's a lie if you know it not to be entirely true. Expungements cannot be held against you for anything, don't worry about being honest.
     

    Straightshooter

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 28, 2010
    5,015
    Baltimore County
    It's a lie if you know it not to be entirely true. Expungements cannot be held against you for anything, don't worry about being honest.

    And don't worry about the Poe-Leese using it against you either, after all, the code says they can't, just like they can't infringe upon your right to keep and bear arms. You see how long that one has taken to straighten out. Remember, the Troopers are your friends (WINK). How many other ways could the MSP word that question to draw out info that the law says you need not disclose? Have you ever been in the back of a police car? Have you ever talked to a court commissioner? Have you ever stood at the front of a courtroom? Have you ever had handcuffs on? Have you ever paid a fine?

    It's not a question of honesty, it's question of being smart.

    Read the code. It was written for a good reason.

    Subtitle 1 - Expungement of Police and Court Records
    Section 10-109 - Prohibited acts.

    (a) Applications for employment or admission.-

    (1) Disclosure of expunged information about criminal charges in an application, interview, or other means may not be required:

    (i) by an employer or educational institution of a person who applies for employment or admission; or

    (ii) by a unit, official, or employee of the State or a political subdivision of the State of a person who applies for a license, permit, registration, or governmental service. (2) A person need not refer to or give information concerning an expunged charge when answering a question concerning:

    (i) a criminal charge that did not result in a conviction
     

    defygravity

    Active Member
    May 5, 2012
    808
    Baltimore County
    This subject has been covered extensively somewhere by I'm too lazy to search for it so here's the infor you need. Remember, the purpose of expungement is to make an indescretion of the past go away.

    2010 Maryland Code
    CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
    TITLE 10 - CRIMINAL RECORDS
    Subtitle 1 - Expungement of Police and Court Records
    Section 10-109 - Prohibited acts.

    (a) Applications for employment or admission.-

    (1) Disclosure of expunged information about criminal charges in an application, interview, or other means may not be required:

    (i) by an employer or educational institution of a person who applies for employment or admission; or

    (ii) by a unit, official, or employee of the State or a political subdivision of the State of a person who applies for a license, permit, registration, or governmental service.

    (2) A person need not refer to or give information concerning an expunged charge when answering a question concerning:

    (i) a criminal charge that did not result in a conviction
    ; or

    (ii) a conviction that the Governor pardoned.

    (3) Refusal by a person to disclose information about criminal charges that have been expunged may not be the sole reason for:

    (i) an employer to discharge or refuse to hire the person; or

    (ii) a unit, official, or employee of the State or a political subdivision of the State to deny the person's application.

    (b) Penalties.-

    (1) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to a fine not exceeding $1,000 or imprisonment not exceeding 1 year or both for each violation.

    (2) In addition to the penalties provided in paragraph (1) of this subsection, an official or employee of the State or a political subdivision of the State who is convicted under this section may be removed or dismissed from public service.
    v

    Just found this interesting document on "procedure" on MSI's site:

    http://marylandshallissue.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Policy-section.pdf

    See page 7....the section on "expunged records".

    I tried to copy and paste it, but it's a pdf doc and would only copy an image. Essentially it says if an expunged record is a reason for a denial and that denial is appealed, not only can the officer appear before the board, but he can use his notes "to refresh his memory".

    Not a lawyer, but is it possible that this may actually be able to be used against you?

    I have no idea, which is why I'm putting the idea out there.....
     

    defygravity

    Active Member
    May 5, 2012
    808
    Baltimore County
    v

    Just found this interesting document on "procedure" on MSI's site:

    http://marylandshallissue.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Policy-section.pdf

    See page 7....the section on "expunged records".

    I tried to copy and paste it, but it's a pdf doc and would only copy an image. Essentially it says if an expunged record is a reason for a denial and that denial is appealed, not only can the officer appear before the board, but he can use his notes "to refresh his memory".

    Not a lawyer, but is it possible that this may actually be able to be used against you?

    I have no idea, which is why I'm putting the idea out there.....

    Then AGAIN...see the next page....8. Saying they can't use that as the "sole reason for denial". WTF do they mean, if they have a policy in place for an officer testifying against you at your appeal, if they can't use it against you?!?
     

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