Everyone - take a breath, now sack up

Patent Guy · Jan 20, 2021

Bolts Rock said:
Neville Chamberlin called, he wants his appeasement policy back.

Well played, Sir. But I’m not appeasing anyone, here. There is a Republican Party outside of Trump. I’m just suggesting we don’t further marginalize ourselves by isolating ourselves in a vortex of self reinforcing narrative. The GOP (my party) just got hammered, and we ought to be able to understand why. Trump’s behavior in Georgia was just goofy and cost us the Senate. We lost the White House and the Senate because of Trump’s failures. Trump was great on 2A, but little else. Meanwhile, Hogan Governed like a real public servant in Maryland, and has saved lives here as a result. Nobody’s confiscating our guns (IMO) because America has bigger problems right now.

bibitor · Jan 20, 2021

Patent Guy said:
Well played, Sir. But I’m not appeasing anyone, here. There is a Republican Party outside of Trump. I’m just suggesting we don’t further marginalize ourselves by isolating ourselves in a vortex of self reinforcing narrative. The GOP (my party) just got hammered, and we ought to be able to understand why. Trump’s behavior in Georgia was just goofy and cost us the Senate. We lost the White House and the Senate because of Trump’s failures. Trump was great on 2A, but little else. Meanwhile, Hogan Governed like a real public servant in Maryland, and has saved lives here as a result. Nobody’s confiscating our guns (IMO) because America has bigger problems right now.

Good.

MJD438 · Jan 20, 2021

Patent Guy said:
Well played, Sir. But I’m not appeasing anyone, here. There is a Republican Party outside of Trump. I’m just suggesting we don’t further marginalize ourselves by isolating ourselves in a vortex of self reinforcing narrative. The GOP (my party) just got hammered, and we ought to be able to understand why. Trump’s behavior in Georgia was just goofy and cost us the Senate. We lost the White House and the Senate because of Trump’s failures. Trump was great on 2A, but little else. Meanwhile, Hogan Governed like a real public servant in Maryland, and has saved lives here as a result. Nobody’s confiscating our guns (IMO) because America has bigger problems right now.

Hogan is no better than any other politician - he has proven to me, through personal experience, that he has no issues lying to appease someone in his office while he has absolutely no desire to fulfill the promised resolutions that formed the basis of the lie. In my personal opinion, he has not governed as a "real public servant" - he has governed like a self-aggrandizing politician with his eye on higher offices and more "power".

GuitarmanNick · Jan 20, 2021

Patent Guy said:
Well played, Sir. But I’m not appeasing anyone, here. There is a Republican Party outside of Trump. I’m just suggesting we don’t further marginalize ourselves by isolating ourselves in a vortex of self reinforcing narrative. The GOP (my party) just got hammered, and we ought to be able to understand why. Trump’s behavior in Georgia was just goofy and cost us the Senate. We lost the White House and the Senate because of Trump’s failures. Trump was great on 2A, but little else. Meanwhile, Hogan Governed like a real public servant in Maryland, and has saved lives here as a result. Nobody’s confiscating our guns (IMO) because America has bigger problems right now.

Although I voted for Hogan, I never confused him with someone that had any interest is serving the people. Like the vast majority of politicians, he will say or do whatever he thinks will further his political aspirations.

He has demonstrated his contempt for Trump and by extension his contempt for those that supported him. I would not urinate on him if he was on fire!

Trump is not a politician and that is why he was elected.

We need more like him in politics. People that will tell you what they think without parsing each word. The problem with politics, is that there are too many lawyers involved!

As for the Republican Party,... they are fast loosing the support of the base that Trump grew. Trump turned it into the party of the working man. If they do not embrace this concept and run with it, a new party may be forthcoming to take it's place.

Praying for us all.

P.S. - Many Americans believe the GOP lost the White House and the Senate because of massive election fraud and not Trump's actions. Perhaps you missed seeing the support he had from the people at his rallies and the courts refusing to allow any of the collected evidence to be presented. If the Democrats are so confident in their victories, why are they fighting to keep any comprehensive audits to be conducted?

BlueFin · Jan 20, 2021

Patent Guy said:
Well played, Sir. But I’m not appeasing anyone, here. There is a Republican Party outside of Trump. I’m just suggesting we don’t further marginalize ourselves by isolating ourselves in a vortex of self reinforcing narrative. The GOP (my party) just got hammered, and we ought to be able to understand why. Trump’s behavior in Georgia was just goofy and cost us the Senate. We lost the White House and the Senate because of Trump’s failures. Trump was great on 2A, but little else. Meanwhile, Hogan Governed like a real public servant in Maryland, and has saved lives here as a result. Nobody’s confiscating our guns (IMO) because America has bigger problems right now.

Can you please point me as to where I can find this info regarding Trump's failures as the US President? I find mostly opinion from the MSM. I am sure he made some, but to be hated and disliked by so many, got to be some huge failures.

Bolts Rock · Jan 20, 2021

Patent Guy said:
Well played, Sir. But I’m not appeasing anyone, here. There is a Republican Party outside of Trump. I’m just suggesting we don’t further marginalize ourselves by isolating ourselves in a vortex of self reinforcing narrative. The GOP (my party) just got hammered, and we ought to be able to understand why. Trump’s behavior in Georgia was just goofy and cost us the Senate. We lost the White House and the Senate because of Trump’s failures. Trump was great on 2A, but little else. Meanwhile, Hogan Governed like a real public servant in Maryland, and has saved lives here as a result. Nobody’s confiscating our guns (IMO) because America has bigger problems right now.

.

Patent Guy · Jan 20, 2021

BlueFin said:
Can you please point me as to where I can find this info regarding Trump's failures as the US President? I find mostly opinion from the MSM. I am sure he made some, but to be hated and disliked by so many, got to be some huge failures.

We are straying from the OP, here, but, briefly (a) Trump’s impulsive, defensive response to Covid prevented any coherent Federal approach was a huge failure and (b) so was his idea that we should isolate and marginalize ourselves and dismiss the news establishment as MSM because we might then rely on quotes from OAN and Breitbart. A full answer is really beyond the scope of what we can do in this thread.

bibitor · Jan 20, 2021

Patent Guy said:
We are straying from the OP, here, but, briefly (a) Trump’s impulsive, defensive response to Covid prevented any coherent Federal approach was a huge failure and (b) so was his idea that we should isolate and marginalize ourselves and dismiss the news establishment as MSM because we might then rely on quotes from OAN and Breitbart. A full answer is really beyond the scope of what we can do in this thread.

Show us on the doll where the orange man touched you.

Patent Guy · Jan 20, 2021

I don’t hate Trump, FWIW, I think of him as I do Wayne LaPierre. IMO, it’s time to scrape both of them off.

welder516 · Jan 20, 2021

You may change your tune once the taxes hit levels unknown to us and energy cost go thru the roof all the while giving free stuff to illegals and pretending they are not illegals . Guess who will pay for that US taxpayers .

Patent Guy · Jan 20, 2021

welder516 said:
You may change your tune once the taxes hit levels unknown to us and energy cost go thru the roof all the while giving free stuff to illegals and pretending they are not illegals . Guess who will pay for that US taxpayers .

I’m a concerned tax paying citizen worrying about those things too. The issue is “now what do we do?” Reengaging with more moderate Republicans is a better choice than anything remotely resembling the Capitol events of January 6th. Some of our comments here sound like an attempt to channel the ghost of Sam Adams, which only marginalizes us IMO. Hogan served two terms and didn’t confiscate our guns.

Occam · Jan 20, 2021

Patent Guy said:
Reengaging with more moderate Republicans is a better choice than anything remotely resembling the Capitol events of January 6th.

False Dilemma
(also known as: all-or-nothing fallacy, false dichotomy [form of], the either-or fallacy, either-or reasoning, fallacy of false choice, fallacy of false alternatives, black-and-white thinking, the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses, bifurcation, excluded middle, no middle ground, polarization)

Description: When only two choices are presented yet more exist, or a spectrum of possible choices exists between two extremes. False dilemmas are usually characterized by “either this or that” language, but can also be characterized by omissions of choices. Another variety is the false trilemma, which is when three choices are presented when more exist.

When things are framed in this way, it's clear they're being discussed out ignorance or, more often, bad faith.

Norton's right, we need more unity in our fight with the totalitarian-minded, over-reaching government and the broken collectivist world view that empowers it. Saddling up to putatively Republican politicians who are in that camp because it feels more collegial to do so, is just giving our Nanny State opponents exactly what they are demanding you do.

The options are not limited to Doing What Nancy Wants or Joining Some Idiots In Vandalizing The Capitol. That's a preposterous way to chart our course.

Patent Guy · Jan 20, 2021

Occam said:
False Dilemma
(also known as: all-or-nothing fallacy, false dichotomy [form of], the either-or fallacy, either-or reasoning, fallacy of false choice, fallacy of false alternatives, black-and-white thinking, the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses, bifurcation, excluded middle, no middle ground, polarization)

Description: When only two choices are presented yet more exist, or a spectrum of possible choices exists between two extremes. False dilemmas are usually characterized by “either this or that” language, but can also be characterized by omissions of choices. Another variety is the false trilemma, which is when three choices are presented when more exist.

When things are framed in this way, it's clear they're being discussed out ignorance or, more often, bad faith.

Norton's right, we need more unity in our fight with the totalitarian-minded, over-reaching government and the broken collectivist world view that empowers it. Saddling up to putatively Republican politicians who are in that camp because it feels more collegial to do so, is just giving our Nanny State opponents exactly what they are demanding you do.

The options are not limited to Doing What Nancy Wants or Joining Some Idiots In Vandalizing The Capitol. That's a preposterous way to chart our course.

I’m very open to better options. At present we’ve lost the White House and both chambers of Congress. We do seem to have done much better in the Judiciary branch, but that branch by itself is reactive, not proactive.

Occam · Jan 20, 2021

Patent Guy said:
but that branch by itself is reactive, not proactive.

It's only as reactive or proactive as plaintiffs cause it to be.

We just went through years of liberals using single cherry-picked federal judges to proactively shut down nationwide Trump policies/orders. Trump sat nearly 300 new federal judges, making the cherry picking for our team a lot easier than it used to be. And with a more conservative SCOTUS sitting in the wings, many such rulings won't be appealed by the lefties in order to avoid a more solid/permanent smackdown.

Through the medium of those 300 judges, Trump will be haunting the left like Jacob Marley. Good.

Ponder_MD · Jan 20, 2021

How do I put this...

We need Trump, "without the Trump." What I mean is, he had a lot of good policies. Policies that even the incoming administration is going to continue with, even though they'll never give Trump credit. Policies that I really agreed with.

The problem was Trump's personal baggage. Trump didn't just "speak his mind" (which is laudable, BTW) he was crass and at times, inarticulate. He spoke in circles. He was petty at times. His obsession with Twitter was part of his undoing. Let's face it, sometimes he was openly dishonest. He did not disavow white supremacy forcefully enough early in his administration. As a result, the left hammered him morning, noon and night over it for 4 years.

We need someone with Trump's policies, who can out maneuver, out argue and discredit all the mud that Progressives usually sling at conservatives. The "racism" tag, the "old rich white male" tag, the "sucking up to big business" tag. We need someone who can make the media look like the gibbering morons that they are, rather than just slinging poop back and forth.

Trump actually crushed the Left with the ACB nomination. No one could touch her at her hearings. No false sex assault narratives. She adopted children of color. Her education credentials were impeccable. She's brilliant. The media tried, but failed miserably to make Coney-Barrett look like a bad person and they failed.

These are the kinds of victories we need. We need a person who can deliver them. I have no names or personalities in my head, I'm just saying that this is what we need.

We need to convey the message that freedom and self-determination are not "racist" or any other "ist" and that this is better way to live than having the government making you comfortable in your poverty through socialism.

Chat-Bot · Jan 20, 2021

thumb_i-dont-always-drink-beer-but-the-next-timeido-iwill-52159227.png

And for the record, sam adams beer sucks.

cstone · Jan 20, 2021

I noticed it is pretty cold outside tonight. Probably because with the stroke of a pen, our nation is once again in the Paris Climate Accord.

Doesn't that make you all feel warm and fuzzy? ; )

Kiaju · Jan 21, 2021

Patent Guy said:
I’m a concerned tax paying citizen worrying about those things too. The issue is “now what do we do?” Reengaging with more moderate Republicans is a better choice than anything remotely resembling the Capitol events of January 6th. Some of our comments here sound like an attempt to channel the ghost of Sam Adams, which only marginalizes us IMO. Hogan served two terms and didn’t confiscate our guns.

But he didn’t protect them either. He took no stance on constitutional issues

Mightydog · Jan 21, 2021

Patent Guy said:
We are straying from the OP, here, but, briefly (a) Trump’s impulsive, defensive response to Covid prevented any coherent Federal approach was a huge failure and (b) so was his idea that we should isolate and marginalize ourselves and dismiss the news establishment as MSM because we might then rely on quotes from OAN and Breitbart. A full answer is really beyond the scope of what we can do in this thread.

Yea, that operation “Warp Speed” sure sucks don’t it! And how do you “isolate” yourself if the fake news media does it for you?

Ponder_MD · Jan 21, 2021

Kiaju said:
But he didn’t protect them either. He took no stance on constitutional issues

One would have hoped that he would take a stronger stance in his 2nd term when he had political capital to spend. Bummer.

Everyone - take a breath, now sack up

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