Body Armor- ceramic vs. steel

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  • defygravity

    Active Member
    May 5, 2012
    808
    Baltimore County
    Long time member, but have been lurking for a while because...kids.

    It's been a while, but I figured it was either this section or the preppers section...sorrybifnits the wrong one!

    Always been thinking of purchasing body armor, but with the recent turn of events in the US... I figured it's time to finally buy.

    Was almost dead set on buying AR500.com armor, but learned they aren't NIJ certified. Then I was going to go with Spartan, but I began reading prepper sites that said ceramic hands down, and steel has no real upsides.

    What do y'all think on the issue? I would be buying this for a SHTF scenario, and won't be using these plates with any regularity. I'd prefer for them to be lighter in case we would have to travel, but I've trained /ran in 30-40lb vests before with no issue. Again, would prefer not to, but wouldn't be the end of the world. Budget is a thing, so I'd prefer not to spend more than 500 on plates and carrier.

    What are your thoughts on this debate? And also, how important is NIJ certification to you when purchasing a set?

    Finally, for plate carriers, what do y'all run/suggest for this type of situation?

    Thanks in advance, it's good to be back!

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     

    aklax11

    Active Member
    Jan 8, 2015
    531
    I’ve got a set of each. The steel is less comfortable but can’t complain about spartan armors 20 year claim for the steel. If I was a billionaire I’d just get the lightest thinnest most protective ceramic and replace them every 5 years so for me it was based on price and length of warranty
     

    defygravity

    Active Member
    May 5, 2012
    808
    Baltimore County
    I’ve got a set of each. The steel is less comfortable but can’t complain about spartan armors 20 year claim for the steel. If I was a billionaire I’d just get the lightest thinnest most protective ceramic and replace them every 5 years so for me it was based on price and length of warranty
    Makes sense. Just figured with the weight I'd save on ceramic if we had to bug out I could carry multiple mags worth of ammo and a FAK.

    Do you really think they'd only be good for 5 years if they're inside and not seeing every day wear in the desert? That's really the only thing stopping me from ceramic.

    Also, did you buy from spartan or somewhere else?

    Thanks!

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     

    ken792

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 2, 2011
    4,480
    Fairfax, VA
    Five or ten years is only the warranty. Realistically, they’ll last longer than that with good storage conditions.

    If you want cheap ceramic, get some Hesco 4401 or L210 plates. The 4401 are Level IV and 7.2lb, but Hesco also advertises them to be good for six hits each of 5.56, M80, or 7.62x39. If you don’t need it to stop M2AP or M80, the L210 is like 5.5lb and is good for six hits each of 7.62x39 steel core or 5.56 or one hit of BZ AP 7.62x39

    Steel doesn’t contain spalling without a much heavier coating or a spall liner.

    Steel doesn’t do well against high velocity 5.56. I’ve seen some steel plates advertised to only stop 5.56 up to 2700 FPS.
     

    kbarrett220

    Member
    Jun 2, 2013
    91
    Eastern Shore, MD
    Armor

    just happen to be an armor dealer. Have worn armor as a Police Officer and in 7 combat tour’s as an Infantryman and an MP. I’ll give the quickest rundown I can. The manufacturers warranty means nothing on hard drive plates. If you have any questions to whether your hard plates combat readiness after rhe manufacturers warranty, just go to your local vet, pay them $25 and have them X-Rayed. But, if you have metal plates he prepared for bad news. All metal plates by any given manufacturer cannot be guaranteed to have the same stopping power. As each batch of poured metal cannot be identical. Then you have the issue of cooling it, oil? Or water? Oil guarantees a more even cooling and less defaults but is exponentially more expensive and as such MOST manufacturers use water. The. They have to cut them from a main sheet, and bend them. Each of these processes makes them even weaker.

    Every type of armor has a pro and a con
    METALS
    PROS
    - Cheapest armor overall
    - Longest warranties
    - thinnest plates
    CONS
    - Weight, pound for pound they are the heaviest plates on the market.
    - They maintain ambient temperature (on a hot day you have a hot piece of metal on your chest, on a cold day an Ice cube.)
    - because they ate hard edged, they will cut, pinch and bruise you around the edges of the plates. Thats why people wear trauma pads between the plate and their skin.
    - Spalling - unless that metal plate is wrapped in kevlar and covered by nylon or doesn’t have a thick coat of anti-spalling material on it, when a round hits that plate, it will splinter. And guess where those shards end up??? Your body or someone standing next to you.
    - Ricochets, often confused with spalling. The round has to go somewhere. Insulated plates capture and encapsulates the round. Metals deflect. If your leaning back when that round hits your chest, it will likely end up in your face.

    UHWMPE (Ultra High Weight Molecular Polyethylene
    PROS
    - lightest plates on the planet
    - they float

    CONS
    - they WILL NOT stop any steel core rounds. Any real Russian or Chinese ammo, Wolf, Bear, Tula, M8555, SS109 will go straight through them like butter
    - they can melt @180 degrees, you cant keep them in your car in the summer, close to an engine or a fire, you will lose you ballistic protection.

    Ceramics
    PROS
    - the only plates tested and approved for Level IV the highest level of armor that can be worn. There is no such thing as a level IV metal plate.
    - the only plate tested that can be worn that will stop an Armor Piercing round.
    CONS
    They are heavy, but always lighter pound for
    Pound than metal.

    There are hybrid plates out there which use more than 1 of these technologies but they are pricey but perform well and are lighter.

    Metals are considered a poor mans armor. Theres a reason NO US Military units wear them or Police Departments that are federally funded can’t purchase metal plates with federal grants
     

    defygravity

    Active Member
    May 5, 2012
    808
    Baltimore County
    just happen to be an armor dealer. Have worn armor as a Police Officer and in 7 combat tour’s as an Infantryman and an MP. I’ll give the quickest rundown I can. The manufacturers warranty means nothing on hard drive plates. If you have any questions to whether your hard plates combat readiness after rhe manufacturers warranty, just go to your local vet, pay them $25 and have them X-Rayed. But, if you have metal plates he prepared for bad news. All metal plates by any given manufacturer cannot be guaranteed to have the same stopping power. As each batch of poured metal cannot be identical. Then you have the issue of cooling it, oil? Or water? Oil guarantees a more even cooling and less defaults but is exponentially more expensive and as such MOST manufacturers use water. The. They have to cut them from a main sheet, and bend them. Each of these processes makes them even weaker.



    Every type of armor has a pro and a con

    METALS

    PROS

    - Cheapest armor overall

    - Longest warranties

    - thinnest plates

    CONS

    - Weight, pound for pound they are the heaviest plates on the market.

    - They maintain ambient temperature (on a hot day you have a hot piece of metal on your chest, on a cold day an Ice cube.)

    - because they ate hard edged, they will cut, pinch and bruise you around the edges of the plates. Thats why people wear trauma pads between the plate and their skin.

    - Spalling - unless that metal plate is wrapped in kevlar and covered by nylon or doesn’t have a thick coat of anti-spalling material on it, when a round hits that plate, it will splinter. And guess where those shards end up??? Your body or someone standing next to you.

    - Ricochets, often confused with spalling. The round has to go somewhere. Insulated plates capture and encapsulates the round. Metals deflect. If your leaning back when that round hits your chest, it will likely end up in your face.



    UHWMPE (Ultra High Weight Molecular Polyethylene

    PROS

    - lightest plates on the planet

    - they float



    CONS

    - they WILL NOT stop any steel core rounds. Any real Russian or Chinese ammo, Wolf, Bear, Tula, M8555, SS109 will go straight through them like butter

    - they can melt @180 degrees, you cant keep them in your car in the summer, close to an engine or a fire, you will lose you ballistic protection.



    Ceramics

    PROS

    - the only plates tested and approved for Level IV the highest level of armor that can be worn. There is no such thing as a level IV metal plate.

    - the only plate tested that can be worn that will stop an Armor Piercing round.

    CONS

    They are heavy, but always lighter pound for

    Pound than metal.



    There are hybrid plates out there which use more than 1 of these technologies but they are pricey but perform well and are lighter.



    Metals are considered a poor mans armor. Theres a reason NO US Military units wear them or Police Departments that are federally funded can’t purchase metal plates with federal grants
    This is excellent information, thank you!! Do you sell armor to civilians?

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     

    Ski169

    Active Member
    May 28, 2012
    939
    I’d go ceramic. They weight about the same as steel unless you bust your budget for the much lighter ones. Spalling is a concern with steel. Good ceramic has multi hit capability like steel but doesn’t deflect the projectile into pieces into your face and chin. Ceramic is more fragile in the sense that it shouldn’t be thrown around due to the possibility of cracking it. I have two sets of ceramic plates and they were in the $500 range each for just the set of plates. But they came in sets. Steel is definitely more budget friendly and the spalling issue can be mitigated to some degree with linex coating.
    As for the carrier, cheap is cheap. I can’t speak to anything other than US made products but they can be pricey. Others with more experience with lower end brands can possibly make some recommendations. My recommendations will bust your budget. Crye JPC, TAG, or Tactical Tailor (both have several types of carriers). But you’re getting into the $300+ range. Although TAG has their classic carrier under $300. But like most things, you get what you pay for. Just my $.02 but others with more experience will be along to point out a few more things I’m sure.
     

    Ski169

    Active Member
    May 28, 2012
    939
    just happen to be an armor dealer. Have worn armor as a Police Officer and in 7 combat tour’s as an Infantryman and an MP. I’ll give the quickest rundown I can. The manufacturers warranty means nothing on hard drive plates. If you have any questions to whether your hard plates combat readiness after rhe manufacturers warranty, just go to your local vet, pay them $25 and have them X-Rayed. But, if you have metal plates he prepared for bad news. All metal plates by any given manufacturer cannot be guaranteed to have the same stopping power. As each batch of poured metal cannot be identical. Then you have the issue of cooling it, oil? Or water? Oil guarantees a more even cooling and less defaults but is exponentially more expensive and as such MOST manufacturers use water. The. They have to cut them from a main sheet, and bend them. Each of these processes makes them even weaker.

    Every type of armor has a pro and a con
    METALS
    PROS
    - Cheapest armor overall
    - Longest warranties
    - thinnest plates
    CONS
    - Weight, pound for pound they are the heaviest plates on the market.
    - They maintain ambient temperature (on a hot day you have a hot piece of metal on your chest, on a cold day an Ice cube.)
    - because they ate hard edged, they will cut, pinch and bruise you around the edges of the plates. Thats why people wear trauma pads between the plate and their skin.
    - Spalling - unless that metal plate is wrapped in kevlar and covered by nylon or doesn’t have a thick coat of anti-spalling material on it, when a round hits that plate, it will splinter. And guess where those shards end up??? Your body or someone standing next to you.
    - Ricochets, often confused with spalling. The round has to go somewhere. Insulated plates capture and encapsulates the round. Metals deflect. If your leaning back when that round hits your chest, it will likely end up in your face.

    UHWMPE (Ultra High Weight Molecular Polyethylene
    PROS
    - lightest plates on the planet
    - they float

    CONS
    - they WILL NOT stop any steel core rounds. Any real Russian or Chinese ammo, Wolf, Bear, Tula, M8555, SS109 will go straight through them like butter
    - they can melt @180 degrees, you cant keep them in your car in the summer, close to an engine or a fire, you will lose you ballistic protection.

    Ceramics
    PROS
    - the only plates tested and approved for Level IV the highest level of armor that can be worn. There is no such thing as a level IV metal plate.
    - the only plate tested that can be worn that will stop an Armor Piercing round.
    CONS
    They are heavy, but always lighter pound for
    Pound than metal.

    There are hybrid plates out there which use more than 1 of these technologies but they are pricey but perform well and are lighter.

    Metals are considered a poor mans armor. Theres a reason NO US Military units wear them or Police Departments that are federally funded can’t purchase metal plates with federal grants

    Damn nice write up! Better than I ever could have said it.
     

    gre24ene

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 6, 2012
    1,519
    I can tell you that the set I bought from Keith fit nice. Multi curve. I can't remember what they weigh but after having them on for 5 minutes you forget you are wearing them.
     

    aklax11

    Active Member
    Jan 8, 2015
    531
    Makes sense. Just figured with the weight I'd save on ceramic if we had to bug out I could carry multiple mags worth of ammo and a FAK.

    Do you really think they'd only be good for 5 years if they're inside and not seeing every day wear in the desert? That's really the only thing stopping me from ceramic.

    Also, did you buy from spartan or somewhere else?

    Thanks!

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


    Personally sitting in a closet I’d imagine the ceramics to last much longer and the steel to last indefinitely. I think some companies rate their ceramics for 10 years

    I got Midwest armor ceramics (rebranded hescos, cheaper) and spartan armor steel.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    You want ceramic, probably Hesco L210s if you're on a budget. Steel is just not a good choice due to spalling and weight concerns.

    Some UHWMPE will stop mild steel core ammo, but it's not going to stop anything with a hardened penetrator (M855 being the typical example).

    DEFINITELY get multi-curve if you can afford it.
     

    hogarth

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 13, 2009
    2,504
    I believe the old mantra is amongst cheap, light, and strong, you can only ever have two of the three.
     

    JTH20

    Active Member
    Feb 18, 2013
    536
    MD
    just happen to be an armor dealer. Have worn armor as a Police Officer and in 7 combat tour’s as an Infantryman and an MP. I’ll give the quickest rundown I can. The manufacturers warranty means nothing on hard drive plates. If you have any questions to whether your hard plates combat readiness after rhe manufacturers warranty, just go to your local vet, pay them $25 and have them X-Rayed. But, if you have metal plates he prepared for bad news. All metal plates by any given manufacturer cannot be guaranteed to have the same stopping power. As each batch of poured metal cannot be identical. Then you have the issue of cooling it, oil? Or water? Oil guarantees a more even cooling and less defaults but is exponentially more expensive and as such MOST manufacturers use water. The. They have to cut them from a main sheet, and bend them. Each of these processes makes them even weaker.

    Every type of armor has a pro and a con
    METALS
    PROS
    - Cheapest armor overall
    - Longest warranties
    - thinnest plates
    CONS
    - Weight, pound for pound they are the heaviest plates on the market.
    - They maintain ambient temperature (on a hot day you have a hot piece of metal on your chest, on a cold day an Ice cube.)
    - because they ate hard edged, they will cut, pinch and bruise you around the edges of the plates. Thats why people wear trauma pads between the plate and their skin.
    - Spalling - unless that metal plate is wrapped in kevlar and covered by nylon or doesn’t have a thick coat of anti-spalling material on it, when a round hits that plate, it will splinter. And guess where those shards end up??? Your body or someone standing next to you.
    - Ricochets, often confused with spalling. The round has to go somewhere. Insulated plates capture and encapsulates the round. Metals deflect. If your leaning back when that round hits your chest, it will likely end up in your face.

    UHWMPE (Ultra High Weight Molecular Polyethylene
    PROS
    - lightest plates on the planet
    - they float

    CONS
    - they WILL NOT stop any steel core rounds. Any real Russian or Chinese ammo, Wolf, Bear, Tula, M8555, SS109 will go straight through them like butter
    - they can melt @180 degrees, you cant keep them in your car in the summer, close to an engine or a fire, you will lose you ballistic protection.

    Ceramics
    PROS
    - the only plates tested and approved for Level IV the highest level of armor that can be worn. There is no such thing as a level IV metal plate.
    - the only plate tested that can be worn that will stop an Armor Piercing round.
    CONS
    They are heavy, but always lighter pound for
    Pound than metal.

    There are hybrid plates out there which use more than 1 of these technologies but they are pricey but perform well and are lighter.

    Metals are considered a poor mans armor. Theres a reason NO US Military units wear them or Police Departments that are federally funded can’t purchase metal plates with federal grants

    Well said.

    What's your opinion on Level 3+ ceramics?
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Some U.S. military units have issued steel plates in the past for low vis armor, but they have mostly all moved on to lighter weight options that require credentials to buy. My HD setup is LVL4 ICW ceramic plates with the correct soft armor backers. It is hot and heavy compared to my work rig, but I can’t afford to upgrade anytime soon. And it’s still way lighter and better protection than steel.

    But if your choices amount to steel or no armor, I say go for it. Just understand what it does and does not do, and that if you find yourself needing your body armor, you better have actually done the work to be able to wear it without gassing out after two minutes.
     

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