California CCW requires psych eval

MigraineMan · Aug 28, 2021

The City of Murrieta, CA offers a CCW permit as an alternative to the CCW offered by the County. MPD Chief Tony Conrad has implemented a policy that requires applicants, in addition to specifying "good cause," to undergo a psych eval at their own expense ... through one of two MPD-specified ~~shrinks~~ providers.

The requirements from MPD's website:

Must be a resident of the City of Murrieta (Penal Code § 26150 and Penal Code § 26155).

Be at least 21 years of age (Penal Code § 29610).

Must be a U.S. Citizen.

Fully complete an application that will include substantial personal information-much of which may be subject to public access under the Public Records Act.

Be free from criminal convictions that would disqualify the applicant from carrying a firearm-see DOJ Firearms Prohibiting Categories.

Be of good moral character (Penal Code § 26150 and Penal Code § 26155).

Show good cause for the issuance of the license (Penal Code § 26150 and Penal Code § 26155).

Pay all associated application fees required by any third-party provider as well as fees required by the Department of Justice and the cost of the LiveScan (fees will not be refunded if the application is denied). The City of Murrieta does not currently charge any fees for issuance of a CCW other than the state fees which are paid to the state.

Provide proof of ownership and registration of any firearm associated with the license.

Be free from any psychological conditions that might make the applicant unsuitable for carrying a firearm (Penal Code § 26190).

Complete required training (Penal Code § 26165)

How will they know that an applicant doesn't have a disqualifying psychological condition? You'd think that "involuntary commitment" or other legally-actionable metric might be used. But no ... the applicant will have to take the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory-2 test, a 567-question (true/false) assay that's fed into a computer to grunt out a bunch of "scores." These scores allow the MPD-designated provider to stroke his/her beard, make the "thinking-really-hard" face, and utter "Hmmm, that's interesting ..." before pulling an assessment out of his/her rectal region. (The various scores of MMPI-2 are correlations against a set of people - 80-ish - in a matching gender and age bracket that the MMPI-2 creators consider "normal." Your score is how close your answers match those of the normies.)

Ultimately, the MMPI-2 is a subjective tool that the Murrieta Chief of Police can use to justify denial of a CCW. Penny-ante tyrants gonna tyrant.

teratos · Aug 28, 2021

This should be interesting. There are lots of people who are batshit crazy.

rseymorejr · Aug 28, 2021

Great idea. I think that test should used to see if someone's fit to vote or hold pulic office too.

Fedora · Aug 28, 2021

rseymorejr said:
Great idea. I think that test should used to see if someone's fit to vote or hold pulic office too.

Or maybe to be Chief of Police.

Glaron · Aug 28, 2021

Fedora said:
Or maybe to be Chief of Police.

Definitely for judges!!!!!

Harrys · Aug 28, 2021

They also should a test for ass wiping, as there surly are more ass wipes in California government than any other place.

TI-tick · Aug 28, 2021

I don't get it; perhaps a political stunt.

Why would someone go to the city of Murietta for this foolishness as an "alternative" when Riverside Co is emerald green for CCW issuance?

I've read a lot of reports where the MMPI reads one way but the interpreter reads something pulled out of their a$$ as previously noted.

Fake news :shrug:

Doctor_M · Aug 28, 2021

So towns now feel they have the authority to issue individual CCW permits... that's a bad idea.

Mark75H · Aug 28, 2021

Doctor_M said:
So towns now feel they have the authority to issue individual CCW permits... that's a bad idea.

I doubt CA law is exactly the saem as MD

press1280 · Aug 28, 2021

TI-tick said:
I don't get it; perhaps a political stunt.

Why would someone go to the city of Murietta for this foolishness as an "alternative" when Riverside Co is emerald green for CCW issuance?

I've read a lot of reports where the MMPI reads one way but the interpreter reads something pulled out of their a$$ as previously noted.

Fake news

If what you say is correct there’s absolutely no reason to apply to the city to pay an extra fee for a psyc exam. When I first read it I thought perhaps it was a trade off between a psyc exam and shall issue.

Threeband · Aug 28, 2021

Did anyone notice this?

Fully complete an application that will include substantial personal information-much of which may be subject to public access under the Public Records Act.

It might be interesting to see what that entails.

This is a trial prototype. They probably hope to replace existing permit processes with something like this, designed to limit permits to the politically connected.

bpm32 · Aug 29, 2021

CA CCWs are issued by a CLEO (usually a sheriff, but not always), and are good for the entire state, including extremely anti-gun places like San Francisco County.

The psychological evaluation is a standard CA CCW thing. A few counties that are basically Shall Issue still have them on the books but don’t bother with them anymore. It was something like, “go to one of these shrinks to say you aren’t crazy, but they can’t charge more than $150.” Shrinks started charging more than that, so sheriffs just shrugged and stopped asking for it.

K31 · Aug 29, 2021

People who can leaving in swarms and you want to disarm the victims that are left to live around feces strewn camps with bubonic plague and recently imported gang members AKA Democrat voters. Wonderful. Good plan.

Muleskinner · Aug 29, 2021

So if you're evaluated and denied for psychological issues wouldn't that then make you prohibited? 4473 asks if you'd ever been adjudicated as mentally defective. Not only will you not get your CCW you're likely to have all your guns taken.

press1280 · Aug 29, 2021

Threeband said:
Did anyone notice this?

It might be interesting to see what that entails.

This is a trial prototype. They probably hope to replace existing permit processes with something like this, designed to limit permits to the politically connected.

CA is different than a lot of other may issue states in that these records (including good cause statements) are public info. It's good in a way for equal protection lawsuits, although I think it'll be a moot point by June 2022.

press1280 · Aug 29, 2021

Muleskinner said:
So if you're evaluated and denied for psychological issues wouldn't that then make you prohibited? 4473 asks if you'd ever been adjudicated as mentally defective. Not only will you not get your CCW you're likely to have all your guns taken.

Good point. I definitely don't see this as constitutional. It's basically saying you're mentally defective until you prove otherwise.

MigraineMan · Aug 29, 2021

Muleskinner said:
So if you're evaluated and denied for psychological issues wouldn't that then make you prohibited? 4473 asks if you'd ever been adjudicated as mentally defective. Not only will you not get your CCW you're likely to have all your guns taken.

"Adjudicated" suggests some manner of due-process, where the Murietta "policy" involves visiting the MPD Captain's buddy at the CVS Minute Clnic for a completely subjective and non-repeatable evaluation.

teratos · Aug 29, 2021

MigraineMan said:
"Adjudicated" suggests some manner of due-process, where the Murietta "policy" involves visiting the MPD Captain's buddy at the CVS Minute Clnic for a completely subjective and non-repeatable evaluation.

Yep. Upper courts are going to tear this apart. It will get the live desire for psych evals off the table.

California CCW requires psych eval

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