Primer Notifications

cotman68 said:

Fiocchi SRP 3000 for $275 including hazmat and shipping

Fiocchi Small Rifle Primers Free Shipping & Hazmat - 3000ct

Fiocchi Small Rifle Primers Free Shipping & Hazmat - 3000ct

americanreloading.com

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Compared to current prices these days, that's actually not too bad - that works out to about 9¢ a primer, which is better than I've seen in a while - most primers once shipping and HAZMAT has been paid are running around 12-15¢ a primer. Of course neither is good. I wish we could go back to the "bad times/days" when primers had "skyrocketed" to $30-$35/brick.

cotman68 said:

Fiocchi SRP 3000 for $275 including hazmat and shipping

Fiocchi Small Rifle Primers Free Shipping & Hazmat - 3000ct

Fiocchi Small Rifle Primers Free Shipping & Hazmat - 3000ct

americanreloading.com

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Post #994 above. Been available for several weeks.

academy has winchester spp for $85/k shipped. can't tell you the last time i've seen win srp though.

davsco said:

academy has winchester spp for $85/k shipped. can't tell you the last time i've seen win srp though.

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Thanks. Ordered a brick to try out.

Shydas has primers and powder no limits and hate to say at that new normal prices

deerassassin22 said:

Shydas has primers and powder no limits and hate to say at that new normal prices

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Yup, Shydas is a hard trip for most folks, so I put most of my comments about them in a separate thread


Std primers were all $89/k and match were $99.

There are still some online deals that rival Shydas, but for availability it’s tough to beat

trickg said:

Compared to current prices these days, that's actually not too bad - that works out to about 9¢ a primer, which is better than I've seen in a while - most primers once shipping and HAZMAT has been paid are running around 12-15¢ a primer. Of course neither is good. I wish we could go back to the "bad times/days" when primers had "skyrocketed" to $30-$35/brick.

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Just depends. Seems depending on what you want even with shipping and hazmat added in, you can find a fair amount of stuff for 10 cents a primer or less.

Primers are continuing to come down. Other than pricing in more profit and/or demand still being too high (possibly), there is nothing structurally preventing primers from dropping down to around $40-45/1k. Sure, inflation and all that means it probably won't be down to the mid low $30 range again. But prices have not increase 50% in 3 years. Average inflation is around 12% total over 3 years. Certainly, some stuff has gone more than that. But a lot of the inputs and stuff for primers (chemicals and metals) have depressed a ton. Primer manufacturers are certainly still making a very healthy profit, probably more now than they were a year or two ago when prices on them were even higher, as the inputs have gotten a lot cheaper than how much the prices have come down.

I think it is going to take a least a year or two before we see prices regularly hitting around $50/1k, but I think they will. Under that, don't know. It depends on how high demand stays and how many more entrants into the primer market there are (IF they ever enter the market). Then again, some, like Sig, even if they never sell reloading primers, the fact that they will be making their own primers will free up capacity/reduce demand from primer makers who are currently selling to Sig. Stuff like that.

Also, Davsco, thanks. I was gonna wait even longer to get any more primers, but I have no WSPP and I've been curious to try them. Hard to say no with free shipping and no hazmat on 1k for 8.5CPP after tax just to try out a 1000 of them.

Back in stock for now https://www.academy.com/p/winchester-small-regular-pistol-primers-100-pack


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cotman68 said:

Back in stock for now https://www.academy.com/p/winchester-small-regular-pistol-primers-100-pack


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Just a quick note on them. My box showed today. Academy improperly sent them only ORM-D, not hazmat. Also not packed well. Just some bubble wrap shoved in there with the box of primers (at least they didn't send 10 trays). All was fine, but the box of primers was almost popped open rattling around in there with the lid slightly bent (not even a piece of tape to keep it closed).

lazarus said:

Just a quick note on them. My box showed today. Academy improperly sent them only ORM-D, not hazmat. Also not packed well. Just some bubble wrap shoved in there with the box of primers (at least they didn't send 10 trays). All was fine, but the box of primers was almost popped open rattling around in there with the lid slightly bent (not even a piece of tape to keep it closed).

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Did they charge a Hazmat fee?

lazarus said:

Just a quick note on them. My box showed today. Academy improperly sent them only ORM-D, not hazmat. Also not packed well. Just some bubble wrap shoved in there with the box of primers (at least they didn't send 10 trays). All was fine, but the box of primers was almost popped open rattling around in there with the lid slightly bent (not even a piece of tape to keep it closed).

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Ordered a brick last Friday I think. Got the package on Monday and just opened it. At least you got bubble wrap… all is good and not complaining on the price. Completely free shipping and no hazmat.

emerald said:

Did they charge a Hazmat fee?

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no but all the costs are baked into their prices, just like 'free' shipping. i don't think that not separately charging hazmat relieves them of any responsibility for hazmat packaging.

i had the same but worse situation. ordered two bricks, they were just thrown in a larger box, no fill/stuffing no nothing. one brick opened and all the trays spilled out and some of them also opened. primers all inside the big box, and some must have escaped. i contacted them and they sent out a tray as a replacement. so all is well other than a little bit of hassle.

Thanks everyone for the detail. I ordered some from Target Sports about a month back, when they got SPP in stock, but the additional charges really added up. I want to get some more and would like to do better on overall price to my door. Longing for the good ole days and pricing.

emerald said:

Thanks everyone for the detail. I ordered some from Target Sports about a month back, when they got SPP in stock, but the additional charges really added up. I want to get some more and would like to do better on overall price to my door. Longing for the good ole days and pricing.

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I mean, the price is pretty decent if just getting a brick or two. There are better deals, maybe not specifically on Winchester SPP if you don't mind getting more. But most of the free shipping and hazmat deals right now are basically on a case. Or they are "Free", but the price is $10-30 a brick more than places that charge shipping and hazmat.

Like American has pretty good prices right now. Ginex SPP for $175 for 2000 and free shipping (and no sales tax). That works out to about the same price as Academy after tax from Academy. $275 for 3000 Fiocchi SRP, to $499 for 6000. So you can tell shipping and hazmat is still being baked into their price, even if "free".

Republic has Ginex SPP for 7 cents a primer, which is very nice (cheapest I can find), but shipping and hazmat is $45. So, ouch. For 1000 you are talking $115, or 11.5cpp. For 2k, you are down to 9.25cpp. 5k is listed as out of stock. Not sure if you could order 2k twice or something. If so, that would get it to 8.13cpp just under academy's price.

A couple of places like Brownell's sometimes have discount codes that might get you something like $15 off $150 and free shipping. Still have to pay hazmat, but some of their prices are in the 8-9cpp range and that gets you just about hazmat free with the $15 off.

KYgun I think somewhat regularly has cases for free shipping and hazmat around $450.

Prices are continuing to come down. Just a question of how much you need or want them. I'd wait. But at the same time, I mean I DID just buy 1k of the winchester from Academy as that is about the cheapest I've seen them delivered in awhile. And for 1k, sure why not. I didn't need them. Which I guess makes me stupid. But I'd rather buy 1k occasionally at the cheapest prices I can find as the prices are coming down, then sit and wait and get it wrong on how cheap they get again trying to buy a ton.

I think we will see $50-60 a brick within 18 months. I doubt we will see under $45 a brick. But we might see high 40s at some point. Just, how many years can we have stable supply chains and reducing demand for guns, ammo, and components? If we have 7 or 8 smooth years and inflation turns flat like it MOSTLY, not all, but MOSTLY inflation has been effectively 0 month over month since late summer. It was just so high for so long, that is why year over year it is still close to 7%. A few more months of flat inflation and year over year inflation is going to plumet because you've had a year of flat prices. Then I suspect things like primers and ammo will just steadily drop. Ammo is already something like 35-40% of the high prices during the peak of COVID prices in like late 2020 and 2021. Primer prices have softened maybe 20%. Bullets mostly didn't seem to go sky high, but those prices also seem to be softening a little. I don't know, maybe 5-10% down, though I feel like they mostly only went up 20% for a lot of them. Powder seems to just keep going up though. I took at look at Blackhorn 209 and I am eternally glad I had picked a couple of 10oz containers up in 2019 when I switched what powder I was using for my ML. It was around $30 something for 10oz then. The containers are 8oz now, and I just look and saw they are $80!!! That is more than 2 bucks a shot, just in powder assuming you can get it without shipping and hazmat. Fortunately the container and a half I have is likely to last me a decade or more since I am mostly shooting 3-5 shots a hunting season between sight in and any hunting I do with it.

lazarus said:

I mean I DID just buy 1k of the winchester from Academy as that is about the cheapest I've seen them delivered in awhile.

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I did too. Figured for 1K to my door, it was probably as good as I was going to find right now. Thanks for the other thoughts and info. Midway, Natchez, and Brownells have been my historic go to places. Because of all the bogus sites, I'm always leery of new places I've never heard of. Good to get some recommendations from others.

emerald said:

I did too. Figured for 1K to my door, it was probably as good as I was going to find right now. Thanks for the other thoughts and info. Midway, Natchez, and Brownells have been my historic go to places. Because of all the bogus sites, I'm always leery of new places I've never heard of. Good to get some recommendations from others.

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Ditto.

I’ve never gotten primers from American or Red Eye reloading, but a lot of bullets from them the last three years. Stand up places.

Otherwise for me it is the general big retailers (which includes midway, Brownell’s, and Natchez). At least for primers. A few other places I’ve done for ammo that are great. But they either don’t do primers, or their primer prices are just bad.

lazarus said:

I think we will see $50-60 a brick within 18 months. I doubt we will see under $45 a brick. But we might see high 40s at some point.

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I'd be happy with that and being able to buy them local again. $80 - 100 a brick and $20 shipping and $30 hazmat fee has forced me to sit on my supply and shoot junk I can find for sale and just some of mine. I might want to shoot, but I don't need to shoot, a lot.

It makes me wonder how much of this is real and how much is gouging. When I go to a small shop like RSP gun shop in Falling waters and his powders are dollars cheaper than Midway and powder valley and I don't have to pay him hazmat and shipping. It makes me wonder how he can make money, or rather how much money the others are making at my expense.

lazarus said:

Just a quick note on them. My box showed today. Academy improperly sent them only ORM-D, not hazmat. Also not packed well. Just some bubble wrap shoved in there with the box of primers (at least they didn't send 10 trays). All was fine, but the box of primers was almost popped open rattling around in there with the lid slightly bent (not even a piece of tape to keep it closed).

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One time I ordered 500rds of 556 from Academy and they shipped it in a microwave-sized box with maybe 4 inflated pillows. Needless to say, it was a mess.

Archeryrob said:

I'd be happy with that and being able to buy them local again. $80 - 100 a brick and $20 shipping and $30 hazmat fee has forced me to sit on my supply and shoot junk I can find for sale and just some of mine. I might want to shoot, but I don't need to shoot, a lot.

It makes me wonder how much of this is real and how much is gouging. When I go to a small shop like RSP gun shop in Falling waters and his powders are dollars cheaper than Midway and powder valley and I don't have to pay him hazmat and shipping. It makes me wonder how he can make money, or rather how much money the others are making at my expense.

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Do you want the feel good answer, or the one that sucks?

Gouging. A lot of it is gouging. There is less competition in the powder space than in the primer space from my understanding. Chemical prices have gone up. Labor has gone up. Transportation and energy prices are up.

But at the end of the day, yeah, I would be floored if most of the supply chain for things like powder and primers weren't running 50-150% the profit margins that they were pre-COVID. Likely at each step. So Hogdon might have gone from (I am making crap up) a $2-3 profit a pound of powder, to $3-7.50 a pound. Midway, Brownell's, etc. probably went from $3-4 a pound profit to $4.50-10. Plus both manufacturer and retailer are likely also dealing with $1-3 a pound extra costs factored into manufacturing, distribution, labor, etc.*

Primers the same sort of thing. It is going to take, and does take, softening demand and/or large increases in supply to really see competition cause those suppliers to be willing to take smaller profits. Primers, we've are seeing a TON of foreign imports. Lots of Serb/Yugo primers, Italian, Argentine primers, Russian primers (I am still left scratching how with the various sanctions Murom primers are getting into the US. At a guess, components aren't sanctioned, just ammo), etc.

There isn't a lot of foreign powder coming in, that wasn't stuff already making its way in, and most of that is contracted stuff going to manufacturers like Hogdon who are manufacturer/repackagers.

Bullets never went up much more than materials costs went up, because there are like 7-8 BIG bullet makers in the US. And about the same number of fairly large foreign manufacturers getting imported. PLUS, probably between half a dozen and several score of small bullet makers depending on what you are looking for. So a crap ton of competition.

Cases went up a fair amount, because a little like powder and primers, there are not a ton of manufacturers. A fair number, but almost all of them prioritized/are prioritizing their own ammunition. Very few case makers aren't also ammo makers. Off the top of my head, Starline is the only one I can think of. Everyone else, Hornady, Winchester, Remington, Sig, Lapua, PPU, Fiocchi, S&B, etc. ALL of them also make ammo. De facto low competition in the space when everyone was and likely still is prioritizing their own ammo manufacturing, not selling in to the reloading market much. Heck, has Hornady sold any cases for reloading in the last 2 or 3 years? I don't think I've seen Win, Rem, etc. cases either. It has been almost all Starline, with some Lapua and Nosler brass at $$$$$$ prices.

That is partly why I am still really hoping all of the primer makers that might be getting into the game, DO. Soften the prices, but also hopefully soften future shocks to the market. If Sig is making their own, if Fiocchi builds a plant in the US, if that one (I forget their name) finally starts operating in Texas, if Hornady maybe gets into the game, this will all help a ton. I wish more powder manufacturers would build a mill. But I don't see that happening. I can hope.

*I am probably low balling increased costs, as well as what the profit margins were before

Archeryrob said:

I'd be happy with that and being able to buy them local again. $80 - 100 a brick and $20 shipping and $30 hazmat fee has forced me to sit on my supply and shoot junk I can find for sale and just some of mine. I might want to shoot, but I don't need to shoot, a lot.

It makes me wonder how much of this is real and how much is gouging. When I go to a small shop like RSP gun shop in Falling waters and his powders are dollars cheaper than Midway and powder valley and I don't have to pay him hazmat and shipping. It makes me wonder how he can make money, or rather how much money the others are making at my expense.

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I already made my three part novel reply on my own barely educated guess on the reloading market too long.

I feel you. I am kind of lucky that I am pretty flush on primers. I want to sit down and do the math to figure out my real primer costs. I started reloading RIGHT before the pandemic hit. I was definitely not balls deep till late spring/summer of 2020 so prices were already going up a lot and availability down. But I at least had some components and a few bricks of primers at pre-COVID prices.

Anyway, across ALL of my primers, I am probably at around 6.5CPP average price. But for certain ones, I wasn't reloading for a cartridge that took that and I only started reloading for it in to COVID and/or bought a gun in that caliber during COVID. Like I had nothing that used LPP at all until literally like the first week or shutdowns here in MD. Heck, I'd bought a LE G21 the Saturday before everything shutdown and I was wondering if I was going to even be able to pick it up because Hogan was shutting down everything. I had to go up to PA to get any ammo for it because everywhere online was out and the shop I got it from, was out. I did find some ammo from Target sports, but I had to grab two boxes at "please Daddy I'd like some more and this time do me dry" prices from gun bunker as well as a couple of mags that fortunately not extremely inflated prices (for the mags, the ammo was $1 a round). Over a few months I was able to maybe get ahold of around 600 rounds of 45acp at nowhere near what it peaked out (other than those 100 rounds from Gun Bunker), but still stinging prices. I also was able to pick up some primers from a member here who was getting out of reloading, but I stupidly only got a brick from him of LPP at a great price (and I think 3 boxes of SPP?) thinking I wasn't going to reload much, but I needed some.

Anyway, some stuff like SPP almost every brick or case I've gotten over the last 3 1/2 years has been fairly inexpensive. The brick of SPP from Academy just now is the most I've paid for any. The last ones I got I think was a couple of add on bricks of SPP from Brownell's when I was ordering some powder I needed, and the primers put me over the limit to use, I think it was, a $25 and free shipping on a $200 order. So after everything, the two bricks were like 7.6cpp. Most of my SPP were from early in COVID, or a brick pre-COVID at 3.2CPP. So my average is like 6CPP probably. My LPP are probably like 8CPP because I've mostly gotten deals, but mostly COVID primers. My LRPs are more like 9CPP because they've all been in COVID and one of those boxes are CCI NATOs that I think ended up being like 11CPP. My SPPM are actually my cheapest. Because I've got two bricks of CCI. I ordered one from Brownell's and I think shipping and hazmat took that single brick to I think $110 when primers were scarce AF. They accidently shipped me 2 and weren't about to take back a brick with shipping and hazmat back to them. So, it was 5.5CPP.

I don't currently shoot anything that needs a SPPM primer, but at some point here I am trying to get a .357.

I have more than I need. But a lot fewer than I want. And replacement cost is still high enough it makes me reluctant to just reload and shoot a crap ton. Honestly, it is more powder costs for rifle stuff making me hesitant to shoot much. Pistol I am comfortable in both how many primers I have and their cost. Powder, even with inflated prices, is still only like 2-3 cents a round for most of the stuff I shoot, and I can even reload 44 mag with something high energy like Bullseye or Titegroup that is only going to run me 4-5 cents a round for the powder in it. I don't have to use 24 grains of H110 for a fireburner at like 20 cents a trigger pull. 240gr at 1200fps is still plenty to put a smile on my face and a frown on any paper down range.

But something like .223 I am running about 16 cents a round on powder. .308 is more like 30 cents a round. .30-06 just makes me want to cry a little. And the worst of those are, the powders I have loads worked up for, are hard to find. Pistol it is just so much easier to work up a lot and then you can load 1000 rounds. 2000 rounds. 4000 rounds. Whatever if you get 2 or 3 pounds of something. Keeps me in shooting a long time. I use up the stuff I have loads for in rifle, and maybe I can get 2 or 3 pounds of some NEW powder. Great, if I want it as accurate as I can, I might us up half a pound of powder just getting a load worked up sufficiently to be really happy with it. And, now maybe I can load 150-400 rounds depending on the caliber and I am out. And, welp, nope, nobody has the powder I wanted.

Maryland being Maryland does not help with that on the powder end of things. If or when it is easy enough to load a bunch of rifle and then turn around and order 4# of the powder I like and have it a few days later, so I can load more. Then I'll be a much happier boy and probably reload a ton more rifle stuff.

It is half of why I finally got a .223 bolt gun. I like shooting and reloading bolt guns a ton more than Semis, even if I do love all of my semis a lot. But it is a lot nicer to be dropping 26 grains of powder in a case for .223 than 40-50 for .308 or .30-06. I honestly care about the cost less, than it is "oh gee, the two pounds of powder I was able to score, well half a pound went to working up a load, and now I have a mildly long reloading session and I have 300 rounds loaded and now I can't find that damned powder". .223 at least, if I do something similar, working up a load mostly takes a lot less powder, and if I got 2 or 3 pounds, well then that is more like 400-700 rounds I can load. I love reloading almost as much as I do shooting.