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  • Racinready300ex-2

    Active Member
    Apr 10, 2020
    184
    I'm curious what people think about clubs not allowing PCC even though it's been a division for a while now. Running around and shooting stuff with a pistol is fun. I have little to no experience with a rifle but running around shooting stuff with them seems fun too. And matches are probably the easiest and least expensive way to run around and blast stuff IMO.

    My typical approach in competition is to commit to a division for at least a year. And the bulk of my shooting will revolve around that division. I'm leaning toward doing PCC next. Now that means next year I don't need to worry about making the DE or MD state matches so I'll save some $. And since my local club doesn't allow them instead of club matches I'll probably just go practice. This stuff doesn't really bother me just got me wondering if clubs will ever really embrace the division. I'm guessing not, or at least not anytime soon.

    My first match with a PCC will be the tier 3 liberty match in a couple months. Until then I'm just guessing what it might be like shooting one in IDPA.
     

    Racinready300ex-2

    Active Member
    Apr 10, 2020
    184
    It's allowed at both AGC and AAFG matches.

    I've considered AAFG after noticing they allow it. They're about 110 miles so roughly 2 hour drive each way not counting beach traffic. This time of year it can be much worse.

    But, the question isn't really how much farther do I need to drive to shoot PCC. It's more do we as competitors want to see the division supported. And do we think we'll ever get to a place where most clubs embrace the PCC so you don't need to drive past clubs to find one you can shoot.

    Does it bother you shooting a pistol division if there are guys running rifles in a different division? For me, even shooting a pistol it didn't bother me.
     

    slsc98

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2012
    6,746
    Escaped MD-stan to WNC Smokies
    I started shooting IDPA in the late 90’s but of late have kind of drifted to 3-gun and so, I am not 100% sure about now but, the way it usually worked was, when shooters wanted to go in a particular direction they would complete the IDPA Safety Officer training, become IDPA SO’s and then TAKE the matches they shoot (and SO) in the direction they want(ed).

    PCC is fun and sounds like it’s worth the effort! :thumbsup:
     

    Racinready300ex-2

    Active Member
    Apr 10, 2020
    184
    I started shooting IDPA in the late 90’s but of late have kind of drifted to 3-gun and so, I am not 100% sure about now but, the way it usually worked was, when shooters wanted to go in a particular direction they would complete the IDPA Safety Officer training, become IDPA SO’s and then TAKE the matches they shoot (and SO) in the direction they want(ed).

    PCC is fun and sounds like it’s worth the effort! :thumbsup:

    I'm not in a situation in life where I can take over as MD for my local club which is what it would take.

    I get where you're going, you assume I do nothing. Or that if someone can't do the things you mentioned they should just be happy with what they get. Maybe it's worth pointing out I am a SO and I've shown up early to build stages, and worked major matches. I help a vary small local club get a outlaw practical shooting match going that's catered to beginners most of whom aren't even comfortable drawing a gun yet.


    But anyway I think my question has been answered.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,879
    It's circular .

    There aren't as many PCC matches , because not many people shoot them , And not many people shoot them because there aren't many Matches .

    Hence my overly subtle metaphor of cart and horse circling each other , rather than simply one in front of the other .

    SLcl98 is probably correct in that at any particular club , it will take a person to step up and take the initiative to get it done for the first one . IF that one is sucuessful , you've got momentum going to make it semi regular .

    If you can't be the one right now , no shame in that . You'll have to bend the ear and call in favors with someone who can .
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    I think some of it being less popular in IDPA is the ruleset and premise of the game itself. Pretty much all 3gun/2gun, steel, and USPSA matches around here have an active and popular PCC division, especially the steel matches. The premise that it it's defensive and not a "game" while shooting targets in sequence with a mandatory reload, sitting in a canoe in the middle of the bay kinda lends itself to a different shooter than the fast/close stages that PCC does well with.
     

    Racinready300ex-2

    Active Member
    Apr 10, 2020
    184
    It's circular .

    There aren't as many PCC matches , because not many people shoot them , And not many people shoot them because there aren't many Matches .

    Hence my overly subtle metaphor of cart and horse circling each other , rather than simply one in front of the other .

    SLcl98 is probably correct in that at any particular club , it will take a person to step up and take the initiative to get it done for the first one . IF that one is sucuessful , you've got momentum going to make it semi regular .

    If you can't be the one right now , no shame in that . You'll have to bend the ear and call in favors with someone who can .

    I see what you mean now. But for using my local club as a example at the last match Revo had one shooter and CCP had one. That club also allows NFC with basically anything and there was 1 guy in that. At that club it's just leadership doesn't like PCC it has nothing to do with the number of competitors at the match.

    So SLcl98 is right in the sense, it would take a new MD at this club for anything to change. I don't know if that is a common reason or not. Which is part of why I started this thread. I'm pretty far from a lot of the MD clubs so I don't get to frequent many other clubs to get a feel for where everyone else stands on it.
     

    basscat

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 23, 2012
    1,390
    A lot of clubs use a little more complex/challenging stage designs that just don't work well or safely with PCC such as:
    Weak hand only, pick-up gun, engagement while inside a vehicle, etc.
     

    Racinready300ex-2

    Active Member
    Apr 10, 2020
    184
    I think some of it being less popular in IDPA is the ruleset and premise of the game itself. Pretty much all 3gun/2gun, steel, and USPSA matches around here have an active and popular PCC division, especially the steel matches. The premise that it it's defensive and not a "game" while shooting targets in sequence with a mandatory reload, sitting in a canoe in the middle of the bay kinda lends itself to a different shooter than the fast/close stages that PCC does well with.

    I shot a stage sitting in a canoe this year too. I bet shooting from inside a car would be a interesting challenge with a rifle too.

    Anyway I think that is likely some of the reason it being shunned. I get it, the P really is pistol in IDPA. But at the same time most people I know have a AR...you know just in case you need it.

    I will likely shoot mostly uspsa next season.
     

    Racinready300ex-2

    Active Member
    Apr 10, 2020
    184
    A lot of clubs use a little more complex/challenging stage designs that just don't work well or safely with PCC such as:
    Weak hand only, pick-up gun, engagement while inside a vehicle, etc.


    Perhaps that's a concern but I think we could work through that.

    WHO for PCC by the rules is just shoot from your left shoulder pulling the trigger with your left hand no big deal.

    I've only shot with a pick-up gun once in 10 years, but I think a easy solution would be to have a table for your rifle on while shooting with the other gun.

    Inside a car I've only done at majors. I think that would be fun to do with a PCC. There is some risk involved with cars in general. This year I've see two people get DQ'd (pistols) for breaking the 180 while exiting a vehicle. I'm not sure if it would be more or less dangerous with a rifle, depending on the situation I guess. In the cases of the DQ's above it's so easy to whip the pistol around and break the 180 in the car where the SO can't really stop you. With a rifle you'd probably bang it into things before you broke the 180.

    Certainly things to consider.
     

    photoracer

    Competition Shooter
    Oct 22, 2010
    3,318
    West Virginia
    I don't shoot that many IDPA matches or even USPSA matches due to bad knees, but I shoot a lot of PCC in Steel Challenge all the way up to Tier 3. If I was going to shoot PCC in an IDPA match I would do it similar to how I have done pistols, in the spirit of IDPA. I would definitely not shoot my SC race gun PCC in IDPA, it just would not feel right because I am unlikely to shoot any of my racegun weapons in a HD situation. However earlier this year I won a Ruger PC-9 at a side raffle of the PSA Shootout. So I decided to equip that as PCCI. Now that I would shoot in an IDPA match and will likely next year some time. I will be looking to only make some internal changes to make it run better and leave it alone. So by next year I hope to be contributing to the PCC numbers in IDPA. Good idea about SO, so maybe I should requalify for that.
     

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    don't see any reason not to allow pcc at matches. i mean, we're there at least half for fun and pcc's are def fun. personally i think they're also a great HD weapon - no recoil, huge mags, everyone looks like a hero shooting them they're so easy to shoot (ie great for women, elderly, kids; easy to stabilize).

    racin', what reason(s) did your local idpa MD(s) give for not allowing pcc? sounds like they are doing nfc divisions so shoot pcc's in that to show the idpa md's there are no issues. not aware of any uspsa venues that don't allow pcc.
     

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    A lot of clubs use a little more complex/challenging stage designs that just don't work well or safely with PCC such as:
    Weak hand only, pick-up gun, engagement while inside a vehicle, etc.

    eh, all that can work fine with a pcc. where there's a will, there's a way. all the above i have done at 2 & 3 gun matches with AR's.

    again, for me, matches are fun AND provide the ability to become more proficient with your guns and gear. so allow folks to do that with their weapon(s) of choice.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Yeah, stage design is not a compelling reason to disallow PCC at matches. The charitable explanation is that some MDs don't want to deal with the process changes involved with PCCs in terms of bringing them on/off the line. The less charitable explanation is that IDPA's membership has a problem keeping up with the times and they don't want to see rifles at their pistol matches. USPSA isn't immune to that, either, but at least they're willing to think about current trends (AIWB and WMLs coming to mind).
     

    Racinready300ex-2

    Active Member
    Apr 10, 2020
    184
    don't see any reason not to allow pcc at matches. i mean, we're there at least half for fun and pcc's are def fun. personally i think they're also a great HD weapon - no recoil, huge mags, everyone looks like a hero shooting them they're so easy to shoot (ie great for women, elderly, kids; easy to stabilize).

    racin', what reason(s) did your local idpa MD(s) give for not allowing pcc? sounds like they are doing nfc divisions so shoot pcc's in that to show the idpa md's there are no issues. not aware of any uspsa venues that don't allow pcc.

    The reason I was given was...." philosophically opposed to having people shoot a rifle in a pistol match" so it will not happen at that club. I even asked if I could just be DQ'd/deleted at the end of the match, or give me a FTDR at every stage just to ensure I finished last. I don't care where I finish I just want to run around and shoot stages with this thing.

    Your "everyone looks like a hero" is a good point. IMO it's really great for some people. I know a guy that shoots USPSA and had never shot a match with out a least 1 mike, and most likely never would. But after switching to a PCC he was able to shoot several matches in a row with no mikes. That's a big deal for someone at that level.

    I've shot some USPSA matches and it's been a ton of fun honestly. So much so, that I switched to PCC for A8 this weekend with only a couple matches under my belt. I'm looking forward to trying a IDPA match with it too.
     

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