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  • camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    Steel matches don't have movement.

    no.

    Outlaw or falling steel matches: These are multiple stages of steel plates, maybe a Texas star, dueling tree, some poppers, and you move between stages. There is at least one range in driving distance of Northern Virginia that holds these. I put "Outlaw steel" into practiscore and I see a match 19th Sept in Winchester VA. The range in marriotsville has one Oct 2nd. I see some others under "falling steel" and just "steel". the idea is the same... multiple stages of steel with movement between stages.

    I mean it's not IDPA/USPSA with the points and rules about target priority. But it's still moving and shooting some plates or a tree under a timer. good fun.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,235
    Montgomery County
    no.

    Outlaw or falling steel matches: These are multiple stages of steel plates, maybe a Texas star, dueling tree, some poppers, and you move between stages. There is at least one range in driving distance of Northern Virginia that holds these. I put "Outlaw steel" into practiscore and I see a match 19th Sept in Winchester VA. The range in marriotsville has one Oct 2nd. I see some others under "falling steel" and just "steel". the idea is the same... multiple stages of steel with movement between stages.

    I mean it's not IDPA/USPSA with the points and rules about target priority. But it's still moving and shooting some plates or a tree under a timer. good fun.

    Just for clarity, moving between stages isn't the same as moving WHILE shooting, or even moving between shot strings on the same stage while under the clock. Falling Steel at AGC in Marriottsville, for example, is usually six physically separate stages, but the shooter is stationary while shooting each stage. I heard some folks there pining away for at least a stage or two where the shooter hits half the stage from one position, and has to move to another box (or two) to finish up the stage. The RO's have to spend the day doing a lot more running around behind their squad's shooters, of course, and it greatly increases the risk of gun-bumbling, slipping and falling, and other DQ-ish things, with the edge going to the younger whipper-snappers in the bunch.
     

    camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    Just for clarity, moving between stages isn't the same as moving WHILE shooting, or even moving between shot strings on the same stage while under the clock. Falling Steel at AGC in Marriottsville, for example, is usually six physically separate stages, but the shooter is stationary while shooting each stage. I heard some folks there pining away for at least a stage or two where the shooter hits half the stage from one position, and has to move to another box (or two) to finish up the stage. The RO's have to spend the day doing a lot more running around behind their squad's shooters, of course, and it greatly increases the risk of gun-bumbling, slipping and falling, and other DQ-ish things, with the edge going to the younger whipper-snappers in the bunch.

    fair but what... you're saying they game it so the boomers win?
     

    slsc98

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2012
    6,746
    Escaped MD-stan to WNC Smokies
    Sanners lake in St Mary’s county Md has USPCA and IDPA matches. If it works for your schedule the “old geezers” matches are unsanctioned matches so there is nothing to join. If you keep safety as a priority and are not a jerk they are really great about helping new guys out.

    My first “old geezer” ( no age restriction just called that because of the 08:00 on a Wednesday match time) match was shot purely on coincidence. I dropped the kids off at daycare and swung by the range to sight in a new scope on a .22 rifle and the range was closed for maintenance. As I was walking back to my truck one of the guys that was going to shoot the match asked if I wanted to try a Usps match. He said any gear I didn’t have someone there would that I could borrow if I had an hour to try a match. I had a great time and did 5-6 more matches with them when I had time before I moved. You do not have to be a member of sanners lake to do any of the matches that are on the calendar.
    https://sannerslake.org/

    Great post! :thumbsup:
     

    camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    Just for clarity, moving between stages isn't the same as moving WHILE shooting, or even moving between shot strings on the same stage while under the clock. Falling Steel at AGC in Marriottsville, for example, is usually six physically separate stages, but the shooter is stationary while shooting each stage. I heard some folks there pining away for at least a stage or two where the shooter hits half the stage from one position, and has to move to another box (or two) to finish up the stage. The RO's have to spend the day doing a lot more running around behind their squad's shooters, of course, and it greatly increases the risk of gun-bumbling, slipping and falling, and other DQ-ish things, with the edge going to the younger whipper-snappers in the bunch.

    idk, I Googled the range and I see a videos that show at least one steel stage where you are shooting from behind barriers and moving through the stage.

     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,235
    Montgomery County
    idk, I Googled the range and I see a videos that show at least one steel stage where you are shooting from behind barriers and moving through the stage.



    Yes, that was some time ago. AGC's Falling Steel matches haven't had that sort of movement in a while, now. Doesn't mean they won't revisit it. Also, their 3-Gun matches of course involve a lot of moving around, and any time you attend a standard Steel Challenge-ish event, there's often a move-between-two-boxes aspect to one or more stages.

    I suspect we'll see AGC introduce some movement back into their falling steel here and there, one stage or so off and on. But it's been a while since things went stationary, for lots of reasons. Besides running the RO's ragged and worrying about the terrain, the ammo crunch has resulted in recent stage designs being built around slightly less shooting to keep the round count down.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,235
    Montgomery County
    fair but what... you're saying they game it so the boomers win?

    No, not at all. But the demographic at (for example) the Falling Steel matches frequently skews into the 40+ and often older crowd. Stage designs with a lot of running or kneeling, etc, would run off half the attendees right quick.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Yes, that was some time ago. AGC's Falling Steel matches haven't had that sort of movement in a while, now. Doesn't mean they won't revisit it. Also, their 3-Gun matches of course involve a lot of moving around, and any time you attend a standard Steel Challenge-ish event, there's often a move-between-two-boxes aspect to one or more stages.

    I suspect we'll see AGC introduce some movement back into their falling steel here and there, one stage or so off and on. But it's been a while since things went stationary, for lots of reasons. Besides running the RO's ragged and worrying about the terrain, the ammo crunch has resulted in recent stage designs being built around slightly less shooting to keep the round count down.
    Correct, albeit I suspect the introduction of sanctioned USPSA is going to reduce the pressure for Falling Steel stage movement. We pulled the spinners as well since some people were getting hung up and burning a bunch of rounds on them (not to mention reset time). These days, it's mostly knock-downs and plate racks and so on, with no movement during the stage. Round count is roughly 20 or so per stage, albeit, you could burn more than that if you miss (and... you definitely will).

    One thing I particularly like about steel matches is that you can usually shoot multiple guns by registering more than once. I make it a habit to shoot optics pistol and PCC, but there's really nothing stopping me from doing PCC and rimfire rifle, irons pistol and optics pistol, etc. Really adds more value to the time spent at the match, and any time you're shooting a defined challenging course of fire under the clock, you're going to improve as a shooter.

    ETA: they're not gaming it so boomers win. The younger crowd does just fine; a teenager won rimfire rifle yesterday, for example (with irons, no less).
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    Where do you live? A lot of IDPA programs around.

    IDPA is good. It takes a lot of flak from the USPSA crowd, sometimes justifiably so, but compared to NOT shooting competition, it's infinitely better. The barrier to entry is pretty low (belt, double mag pouch, decent kydex holster), and the only real gotcha is understanding target priority rules and equipment division rules.

    You want to get into shape before your first match, do regular dry-fire of concealed draws and target transitions on a par timer.

    Don't buy bad holsters. Full stop. A holster failure can ruin your match.

    I'd also recommend NOT buying paddle holsters. One of the most common holster failures in action shooting, classes, pretty much any serious use, is pulling your paddle holster out with your gun. Holsters that use a proper belt interface like Tek-Lok or UBL are the way to fly.

    So much this. I competed in IDPA for a few years before discovering USPSA and 3 gun. Might crap on it a little and haven't actively competed in it for a while but getting into ANY competition is vastly superior to punching paper on a static range.

    IMO your belt gear matters MORE than what pistol you choose to start out with. A crappy Fobus, "universal" or floppy nylon holster will be an issue, they impeded, they frustrate, and can lack the bare basics to use in competition, or for any other purpose. Spend the $100 on the Blade tech IDPA competition kit, comes with a belt, holster and double mag pouch. It's the lest expensive useable gear you can get all in a single box. Might move on to something better, but that is a good start, and it can serve a recreational competitor for years.

    Finding a competition that fits your goals is important. Buying equipment and spending thousands on ammo and registration fees can be incredibly frustrating, especially when starting out. IMO the best to start with is either a steel challenge match, or the fun shoots hosted at York IWLA. Minimal equipment, simple scores, and simple rules. From there you can move on to other stuff. Practice essentially breaks down into on and off range practice. For on-range practice, not may will allow multiple targets and shooting from a draw, but they are critical skills, otherwise practice raising the pistol and firing controlled pairs as fact as you can. You need to adjust your grip and control the trigger so you can fire 2 rounds close together without really thinking about it. For off-range, dry fire from a draw, reloading mags with dummy rounds, and practicing movements are a good use of time.

    Steel challenge is simple, but great practice for other matches. Basically 5 steel plates arranged in one of eight stage designs. 4 white plates that can be shot in any order, and a red stop plate to be shot last. Shoot the stage 5 times and add the best 3 runs for your time and score. Equipment is simple, enough mags to shoot 5 or 6 rounds 5 times, and most any pistol or revolver centerfire or 22 will work, draw of start from low ready. The consistent stages help show progress, and the minimal equipment and cost makes it the best first match IMO. It can get boring if it is the only match you shoot, most of the "Fun" is shooting multiple classes that you may not otherwise shoot.

    Falling steel / PSA / York "fun shoot" Unlike steel challenge, there are anywhere from 10-50 falling steel targets arranged in any layout the match director wants. You might or might not have movement, classes can be anything from 22 to shotguns, and different hosting ranges might have fun themed matches. The PSA nationals in Palmyra PA is a lot of fun, and I would recommend you take the trip up soon as you have the equipment to shoot it(at least 6 mags, 300 rounds and a pistol). You can see pros like the Miculeks shoot it, or most every competitive shooter within a few hours drive. York's Isaac Walton league also hosts regular fun shoots, and their own falling steel matches. It's a great introduction to more complex action shooting, but fun in their own right. You can shoot individual or as a team in probably a dozen divisions. The website has a signup for the Yorkpistol blogspot to get notified of upcoming matches. This is my "home" range for competitions.

    IDPA. 18 rounds, concealment garments, and "points down", it's the game that hates being called a game. It came about as a "realistic" defensive alternative to the faster and more game-ish IPSC and USPSA, so low round counts, complex stages, tactical criteria(circa 80s-90s police training). It's a very technical competition where penalties favor accuracy over speed, and shooting targets out of order, failing to perform the correct type of reload(keeping a mag with ammo still in it) or any number of procedural errors can destroy an otherwise good score. I might be a bit critical of it, but its rule set is very limiting, and allows little freedom to shoot outside of the match director's intention. It's a good place for former hall monitors turned ROs to call out faults and penalties for things like sticking your foot too far out from a barricade. It can be fun, especially in outlaw matches or with a creative match director, at minimum it teaches you to work within the division rules in order to avoid penalties if you move onto other match types.

    USPSA- fast, fun, what people usually think of when competitive shooting is mentioned. Stages almost always have movement, there is some opportunity to shoot a stage a couple different ways, mix of steel and paper. Round counts can run 50+ per stage with multiple reloads, and as you usually draw before movement, you might need 5 or more mag pouches in some divisions. Running PCC on the fast close stages with huge mags is stupid fun.

    Multi-gun, 2 gun /3 gun. Course layout can be complex, there are often several ways to shoot a stage, often while choosing different weapons for a group of targets. It features everything from aerial clays to long range rifle targets, falling steel displays and USPSA style groups of cardboard targets appearing as you move through a stage. It's a lot of fun, has basically every other shooting discipling mixed in somewhere, and a lot of complexity. Like IDPA the rules can loose you procedural points or a DQ quick, but the majority are intuitive and safety related. It is easily the most expensive match to shoot with an average competitor shooting a couple grand worth of guns and few hundred rounds. Some 2 gun matches may ditch the shotgun entirely, might even be able to use a PCC and handgun sharing 9mm ammo to keep cost and complexity down. Running a shotgun well has a really steep learning curve, especially quad loading, but it introduces skill and a lot of unique target presentations. Each hosting range will have their own match personality, some are very physical, with a lot of movement, some are very fast and USPSA-ish, some are just banannas, may start with steel that triggers clays for a shotgun, then move onto 500 yard rifle targets, then run, climb over a wall, and shoot steel plate arrangements with a handgun.
     

    jonnyl

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 23, 2009
    5,969
    Frederick
    I’d say don’t be afraid to jump in. People are very helpful and welcoming to newbies.

    Focus on safety, then accuracy, then speed. The fun starts right away, even though it might take a few times for the nerves to calm down.
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,985
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    International Bullseye Shooting with Neutered Mags


    The scenario based stages are fun, the goofy rules not so much.

    I used to enjoy shooting from a canoe, shooting with handcuffs on, shooting while holding a shotgun over my other shoulder, shooting while moving with a briefcase, etc... The neutered mags thing I never did understand and when they changed the headshot to not really be a headshot I was done.
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,985
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Yes, that was some time ago. AGC's Falling Steel matches haven't had that sort of movement in a while, now. Doesn't mean they won't revisit it. Also, their 3-Gun matches of course involve a lot of moving around, and any time you attend a standard Steel Challenge-ish event, there's often a move-between-two-boxes aspect to one or more stages.

    I suspect we'll see AGC introduce some movement back into their falling steel here and there, one stage or so off and on. But it's been a while since things went stationary, for lots of reasons. Besides running the RO's ragged and worrying about the terrain, the ammo crunch has resulted in recent stage designs being built around slightly less shooting to keep the round count down.

    I wouldn't bet a paycheck on that. I've been begging for just a little bit of movement to no avail. All the movement you're going to get at a Falling Steel match will be re-setting targets.

    Correct, albeit I suspect the introduction of sanctioned USPSA is going to reduce the pressure for Falling Steel stage movement. We pulled the spinners as well since some people were getting hung up and burning a bunch of rounds on them (not to mention reset time). These days, it's mostly knock-downs and plate racks and so on, with no movement during the stage. Round count is roughly 20 or so per stage, albeit, you could burn more than that if you miss (and... you definitely will).

    One thing I particularly like about steel matches is that you can usually shoot multiple guns by registering more than once. I make it a habit to shoot optics pistol and PCC, but there's really nothing stopping me from doing PCC and rimfire rifle, irons pistol and optics pistol, etc. Really adds more value to the time spent at the match, and any time you're shooting a defined challenging course of fire under the clock, you're going to improve as a shooter.

    ETA: they're not gaming it so boomers win. The younger crowd does just fine; a teenager won rimfire rifle yesterday, for example (with irons, no less).


    Ding, ding, ding! Falling Steel is a blast the first six times you do it but after that it's like eating lobster every day. Eat enough and it starts to taste like soap.
     
    Apr 8, 2012
    547
    Earth
    I live in the Northern Neck of Va. No IDPA programs near me, not that I mind driving a bit though.

    Is Manassas close enough? https://www.fxrgc.org/pistol/idpa/

    As others have already mentioned, if you can get to Lexington Park, MD https://www.sannerslake.org/IDPA

    Both clubs run good matches and are very welcoming in my experience.

    The most important thing at this point should be focusing on safety. Everything else will come later. Other that, I would recommend watching some YouTube videos of amateur shooters.
     

    Bikebreath

    R.I.P.
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 30, 2009
    14,836
    in the bowels of Baltimore
    no.

    Outlaw or falling steel matches: These are multiple stages of steel plates, maybe a Texas star, dueling tree, some poppers, and you move between stages. There is at least one range in driving distance of Northern Virginia that holds these. I put "Outlaw steel" into practiscore and I see a match 19th Sept in Winchester VA. The range in marriotsville has one Oct 2nd. I see some others under "falling steel" and just "steel". the idea is the same... multiple stages of steel with movement between stages.

    I mean it's not IDPA/USPSA with the points and rules about target priority. But it's still moving and shooting some plates or a tree under a timer. good fun.

    I was thinking Steel Challenge, anyway. Your explanation was good for the OP to learn. And how he should look up Steel Challenge as a choice.
     

    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,531
    Columbia
    idk, I Googled the range and I see a videos that show at least one steel stage where you are shooting from behind barriers and moving through the stage.




    Correct, but since COVID and a brutally hot summer last year AGC has been setting them up with no movement. (Falling Steel)
    Eventually they are going to work some movement during a stage back into future matches I believe.
    You could also try 2-gun at AGC (same day/match as 3-gun) there is movement with Botha rifle and pistol.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,267
    Harford County
    International Bullseye Shooting with Neutered Mags


    The scenario based stages are fun, the goofy rules not so much.

    I used to enjoy shooting from a canoe, shooting with handcuffs on, shooting while holding a shotgun over my other shoulder, shooting while moving with a briefcase, etc... The neutered mags thing I never did understand and when they changed the headshot to not really be a headshot I was done.

    The first time I've ever been handcuffed was for IDPA. It was fun...but weird, and not in a cool kinky way :o

    As a rule, I much prefer clanging steel...and having shot mostly steel (which requires a minimum safe distance), there is something giddy about reaching around a barricade to point shoot a cardboard target so close you leave powder burns on it :D

    On one hand, doing a little bit of IDPA has helped my steel shooting with the aim small miss small mentality. On the other, it's kinda neat being so close (sometimes) that you don't need to use sights.



    I wouldn't bet a paycheck on that. I've been begging for just a little bit of movement to no avail. All the movement you're going to get at a Falling Steel match will be re-setting targets.




    Ding, ding, ding! Falling Steel is a blast the first six times you do it but after that it's like eating lobster every day. Eat enough and it starts to taste like soap.
    Agreed. I miss the Courses of Madness. I love changing a half empty mag (definitely NOT an IDPA tactic) on the run, and trying not to step on it :o Also, while I don't have the cardio to maintain it, I'm pretty sure my sprinting is better than my shooting...so that helps my score a little :innocent0

    The novelty of "OMG, look at all that steel" wears off when you are just standing there blasting away...for me, at least. Also, sadly, there is a little voice in my head these days that hears "cha-ching, cha-ching" instead of "pew pew" :sad20:
     

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