I'm Embarrassed to ask, but.....

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  • outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,816
    Don't them guns have a ka-boom problem?
     

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    KIBarrister

    Opinionated Libertarian
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 10, 2013
    3,923
    Kent Island/Centreville
    It is specifically the 10 ML II I am asking about. I have one, and a friend offered me $200 for it. Just needed to know if it had to go to a ffl/dealer. Thank you.

    I already have one or is happily offer double (provided it had not been black powdered). You’re giving your friend a hell of a steal...
     

    newmuzzleloader

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 14, 2009
    4,765
    joppa
    It is specifically the 10 ML II I am asking about. I have one, and a friend offered me $200 for it. Just needed to know if it had to go to a ffl/dealer. Thank you.

    I can go a bit more than your friend if you want to make some extra dollars.
    If he's a good bud and your trying to help him out some, I get it and Ill mind my own business.

    I already have one or is happily offer double (provided it had not been black powdered). You’re giving your friend a hell of a steal...

    Your friend should be paying you a lot more than $200 for a 10ml II. Savage stopped making them and prices skyrocketed. Check prices on gunbroker.....
     

    Trappemann

    Active Member
    Mar 26, 2013
    185
    Eastern Shore
    He is a good friend, and would benefit a great deal from this.

    I cannot find anything later than what I posted at the gubmint site.

    Is their text saying that this is GTG WOP?

    Thanks
     

    KIBarrister

    Opinionated Libertarian
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 10, 2013
    3,923
    Kent Island/Centreville
    He is a good friend, and would benefit a great deal from this.

    I cannot find anything later than what I posted at the gubmint site.

    Is their text saying that this is GTG WOP?

    Thanks

    If you really need a concrete .gov document I can check my office computer, but I will tell you with absolute certainty a 4473 is not required.

    The following pdf indicates that the FIRST GEN 10ML required a 4474. The -II was the result of modifications to exempt the 10ML from needing a 4473. If you are using Google some confusion may be coming from a directive by BATFE that any muzzleloader using 209 ignition required an FFL (which existed contemporaneous with the 10ML being modified to -II)

    https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0501-firearms-top-10-qaspdf/download
     

    Trappemann

    Active Member
    Mar 26, 2013
    185
    Eastern Shore
    Thanks KI,
    I used the same doc that you just posted.

    Does that fly with the People's Republic as well? Or is there a super-secret form, known only to MDSPFD, that I need to process under the threat of Felony?

    I know it sounds ridiculous, but having grown up in a Gun Shop, now Albright's Gun Shop, and seeing the changes of the last 30 years, nothing makes actual sense here any longer.

    GubmintOverreachIsKillingUs!

    Maybe I should just leave it in the yard for a few days...Sheeeesh!
     

    KIBarrister

    Opinionated Libertarian
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 10, 2013
    3,923
    Kent Island/Centreville
    Thanks KI,
    I used the same doc that you just posted.

    Does that fly with the People's Republic as well? Or is there a super-secret form, known only to MDSPFD, that I need to process under the threat of Felony?

    I know it sounds ridiculous, but having grown up in a Gun Shop, now Albright's Gun Shop, and seeing the changes of the last 30 years, nothing makes actual sense here any longer.

    GubmintOverreachIsKillingUs!

    Maybe I should just leave it in the yard for a few days...Sheeeesh!

    Albrights - good people. My son used to go to school with one of their young'n's.

    There is nothing else. Maryland does not regulate these beyond what the feds do for purposes of transfers. If you really want to feel better, you can email the MSP licensing division and ask them expressly (although I hate doing that out of fear they will see untouched room to infringe). The only avenue for regulation would be through the recent long gun transfer bill, but that applies to rifles and shotguns, which are defined in Section 4-201 of the Criminal Law Article:

    Rifle
    (e) “Rifle” means a weapon that is:
    (1) designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder; and
    (2) designed or redesigned, and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

    Shotgun
    (h) “Shotgun” means a weapon that is:
    (1) designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder; and
    (2) designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore one or more projectiles for each pull of the trigger.


    FWIW, the opinions I'm expressing are not lay. I practice law in Maryland and have published federal case law on 2A issues....
     

    Trappemann

    Active Member
    Mar 26, 2013
    185
    Eastern Shore
    Albrights - good people. My son used to go to school with one of their young'n's.

    There is nothing else. Maryland does not regulate these beyond what the feds do for purposes of transfers. If you really want to feel better, you can email the MSP licensing division and ask them expressly (although I hate doing that out of fear they will see untouched room to infringe). The only avenue for regulation would be through the recent long gun transfer bill, but that applies to rifles and shotguns, which are defined in Section 4-201 of the Criminal Law Article:

    Rifle
    (e) “Rifle” means a weapon that is:
    (1) designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder; and
    (2) designed or redesigned, and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

    Shotgun
    (h) “Shotgun” means a weapon that is:
    (1) designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder; and
    (2) designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore one or more projectiles for each pull of the trigger.


    FWIW, the opinions I'm expressing are not lay. I practice law in Maryland and have published federal case law on 2A issues....

    Much obliged KI!

    Yup, Dad sold The Gun Shop to Larry in 1982. Know the family well. They have kept a lot of it exactly as we left it, and made improvements as well.

    To whatever extent I have grown up (not much really) it happened there.

    I know, by your handle and knowledge, that you are legit.

    Muchas Gracias!
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    Don't them guns have a ka-boom problem?

    Thats why I'm buying all I can find, to keep others safe who shouldn't be playing smokeless muzzle-loader guy.
    Or at least for those who allow people to talk to them while loading is being undertaken or who think more must always be better.
    I figure, its the least I can do from a personal accountability perspective.:o
     

    Bountied

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 6, 2012
    6,893
    Pasadena
    Thats why I'm buying all I can find, to keep others safe who shouldn't be playing smokeless muzzle-loader guy.
    Or at least for those who allow people to talk to them while loading is being undertaken or who think more must always be better.
    I figure, its the least I can do from a personal accountability perspective.:o

    I have a 700ML 50cal that uses 209 primers. I used to use those 50gr pellets but 100 wasn't enough and 150 was too much. I switched up to measuring my charges, and 120 is the sweet spot. Can't rememeber what powder I'm using but the bullets are Barnes sabots in .45, the cups make it a .50. I can hit inside 12" at 100yds which is more than I can ask for. Bullets make all the difference. The Knights from Walmart are crap and my dad has good luck with the power belt bullets.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,816
    I have a 700ML 50cal that uses 209 primers. I used to use those 50gr pellets but 100 wasn't enough and 150 was too much. I switched up to measuring my charges, and 120 is the sweet spot. Can't rememeber what powder I'm using but the bullets are Barnes sabots in .45, the cups make it a .50. I can hit inside 12" at 100yds which is more than I can ask for. Bullets make all the difference. The Knights from Walmart are crap and my dad has good luck with the power belt bullets.

    I too shot the 150 grains, 777 in my case. My Encore used to devour scope mounts, LOL. One year, I couldn't find any 50gr pellets but the 60gr 'Magnum' pellets were available so I switched to using two pellets(120grs) with Traditions SmackDown SST bullets and I was getting touching groups out to 100 yards!
     

    gizzard

    Active Member
    Oct 30, 2012
    607
    hagerstown
    had a 45 long cold conversion cylinder for a ruger black powder revolver, had to go through dealer is sold as a package,gun, conversion cylinder and original bp cylinder, per atf.
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    Recently, well about 6 months ago I had my old cap lock rifle out for a club shoot.
    I bet I hadn't shot the thing in over 15 or more years I bet.
    Load is 80 g pyro RS with home cast 370 gr maxi-hunter with a pinch of hornet nesting paper. CCI no11 mag cap.
    Albeit I was shooting from a rested position @ 100 yards, if I didn't mess up and hit between that V on the last shot, I might have wound up with nice group.
    Controlling recoil and muzzle jump is as important factor as ever in a ML rifle, or any rifle for that matter.
    I don't know why people don't discuss things like that anymore. Reducing powder charges and heavy(ier) rifle(s) contribute greatly to group size more often than not in a lot of cases. Especially in ML rifles.


    cut target.jpg
     

    Bountied

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 6, 2012
    6,893
    Pasadena
    I too shot the 150 grains, 777 in my case. My Encore used to devour scope mounts, LOL. One year, I couldn't find any 50gr pellets but the 60gr 'Magnum' pellets were available so I switched to using two pellets(120grs) with Traditions SmackDown SST bullets and I was getting touching groups out to 100 yards!

    I'll look for some of those. The powder measuring is not the worst, but pellets are pretty much fool proof.
     

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