4th circuit decision

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  • w2kbr

    MSI EM, NRA LM, SAF, AAFG
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 13, 2009
    1,128
    Severn 21144
    "Kleenex, stat"!!!!!
    I think I agree with Moonlighter!!

    I'M the OP. hmmmm don't like the Title? It is/was the 4th Circuit, and they did make a decision, Hence, "4th Circuit Decision". If that puts a twist in your knickers, ask the "Mods to clean the twist; change the Title to what you wish"

    So be it
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Lets pick an age of majority and apply it uniformly. Whatever age your are allowed to die for your country, you should be allowed to vote, buy fire arms and have a beer too. Then let’s push for actually preparing our children for that transition as soon as they are born instead of treating them as incompetent toddlers until they are 25 and beyond.

    I think part of the issue is a clash of science, common sense and reality.

    No one wants their “kids” at age 23 to still be living with them and make all their decisions. But science (and mountain of evidence) says your decision making and impulsivity continues to “mature” until your mid 20s.

    Physically sort of the same thing.

    So what might be fine at 28, is not nearly so good for you at 19 and you’ve got reduced decision making at 19 on top of that.

    But the better question, is it good enough decision making, etc.

    If you ignore the realities of the world, well people shouldn’t drink until their mid 20s. Frankly never smoke, ever. Probably shouldn’t be driving till at least their early 20s. Etc.

    But I think we all know reality could never reflect that.

    And of course is also the reality that some mature and reasoned 16 year olds are less impulsive and better decision makers than many 30 year olds. Whatever the balance is for “good enough” needs to be that standard. If that is 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, whatever. But yes, I think all rights and privileges should be vested at the same time, not dribbled out.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    Because the 9th Circuit was addressing a California Law , while the 4th Circuit was addressing Federal Law , regarding activities involving Federal Licensees .
     

    Sleepy

    Active Member
    Jan 19, 2013
    139
    If this stands it seems it would open the way for challenges to the drinking age.

    I guess it's time to buy stock in White Claw.
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    22,163
    I think I agree with Moonlighter!!

    I'M the OP. hmmmm don't like the Title? It is/was the 4th Circuit, and they did make a decision, Hence, "4th Circuit Decision". If that puts a twist in your knickers, ask the "Mods to clean the twist; change the Title to what you wish"

    So be it

    Your title is correct. The problem is the 4th Circuit makes hundreds or thousands of Decisions, it would be nice to have a hint about the subject of this particular decision.
     

    Minor

    Member
    May 17, 2013
    88
    Frederick, MD
    A sad fig leaf

    Isn’t the gun violence clap trap just a sad fig leaf for the politicians failed policies.
    I'm pretty sick of the constant whining of gun violence violins. You'd think that an educated jurist would comprehend that inanimate objects are not capable of violent acts; you'd be wrong, of course. High level of education does not equate to high level of intellectual comprehension, apparently. However, it eases the slide into hypocrisy. Our information providers have long acted on the dictum that ******** baffles brains; the more brains, the less BS required.
     

    jc1240

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 18, 2013
    14,795
    Westminster, MD
    Lets pick an age of majority and apply it uniformly. Whatever age your are allowed to die for your country, you should be allowed to vote, buy fire arms and have a beer too. Then let’s push for actually preparing our children for that transition as soon as they are born instead of treating them as incompetent toddlers until they are 25 and beyond.

    I agree with this completely.

    Preemption clause does NOT apply, under states rights, states are permitted to have laws that are more strict than the federal equivalent.

    Except that shouldn't apply to silly things like the Bill of Rights. ;) Not arguing with you; I'm arguing with our overlords in Annapolis and DC.
     

    lemmdus

    Active Member
    Feb 24, 2015
    380
    Lets pick an age of majority and apply it uniformly. Whatever age your are allowed to die for your country, you should be allowed to vote, buy fire arms and have a beer too. Then let’s push for actually preparing our children for that transition as soon as they are born instead of treating them as incompetent toddlers until they are 25 and beyond.

    I agree 100%:party29:
     

    TheBert

    The Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 10, 2013
    7,687
    Gaithersburg, Maryland
    Drinking isn't enshrined in the COTUS

    At what age can you make decisions for yourself?

    Some places 15 year olds can get drivers licenses.

    Everywhere 17 year olds can enlist in the military, with their parents permissions, which effectively makes them emancipated and capable of making their own decisions.

    If I can vote and die for my country then I should be able to drink a beer.
     

    Crazytrain

    Certified Grump
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 8, 2007
    1,641
    Sparks, MD
    I agree that a phased in majority makes no sense. Once you are old enough to have adult penalties, you should have adult privileges.

    Perhaps there needs to be a majority test of some type.

    Join the military? You are an adult.
    Get married? You are an adult.
    Demonstrate that you are financially capable? You are an adult.
    Graduate college? You are an adult.
    Frankly, perhaps just signing a paper saying that you accept the responsibilities of adulthood can make you an adult.

    I guess there should be a max age in here somewhere. 25 maybe?

    If you don't qualify, you can leach off your parents I suppose. Not really fair to them, so maybe an option to leach off of society via some social worker supervision (I mean...you will probably be leaching anyhow). But you don't get any adult privileges. No marriage. No drinking. No contracts. No medical procedures without guardian approval. No guns. No voting. No staying out past 1am. No fun.

    It probably wouldn't work the way I laid it out above. But given how I know 15 year olds who are very responsible and 30 year olds who have never held a full time job, it seems a shame to treat everyone as if they are equally capable. I think it tends to punish the responsible.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Frankly, perhaps just signing a paper saying that you accept the responsibilities of adulthood can make you an adult.

    But how do you determine that the person was responsibly enough to understand what it means to sign that paper?

    Would a 5 year old understand???
     

    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,538
    Columbia
    Lets pick an age of majority and apply it uniformly. Whatever age your are allowed to die for your country, you should be allowed to vote, buy fire arms and have a beer too. Then let’s push for actually preparing our children for that transition as soon as they are born instead of treating them as incompetent toddlers until they are 25 and beyond.


    Agree 100%
    Spot on.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Crazytrain

    Certified Grump
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 8, 2007
    1,641
    Sparks, MD
    But how do you determine that the person was responsibly enough to understand what it means to sign that paper?

    Would a 5 year old understand???

    How do you know an 18 year old is?

    I don't know, really. I don't think anyone does. I guess there could be a minimum age in my plan. 16, maybe? I know there are emancipated minors at that age. Perhaps 18 does make sense as a minimum as at that point most should have completed high school and, theoretically, should have the tools to lead productive lives.

    ToolAA said:
    Lets pick an age of majority and apply it uniformly. Whatever age your are allowed to die for your country, you should be allowed to vote, buy fire arms and have a beer too. Then let’s push for actually preparing our children for that transition as soon as they are born instead of treating them as incompetent toddlers until they are 25 and beyond.

    I don't disagree.
     

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