I also like turtles, all of the new guys coming out are frustrated with the shit going down. I understand the frustration, but we need to be smart about what we do. Acting all agro and soliciting lawyers on public forums (to which he has posted 6 times) = probably not the best idea. I understand the sentiment, but I educate myself and try to sway public opinion and testify. If the class action thing happens, Im there (been waiting 37 days now). If you are frustrated, take that energy and use it to A) lobby your reps B) go to public forums (real people) if you are confident in your speech and ability to conduct yourself, and engage the people there. We are loosing this battle because we are letting them define guns as bad. 50 years ago everyone had a rifle on their back window, now they are evil. It is public perception, and the anger (while possibly justified) is not going to help our cause.
Willing Attorneys?
- Thread starter Trigger Time
- Start date
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newq
101st Poptart Assault BSB
Sure Omalley we will be your lap dog , pls let us enjoy what firearms you approve of us owning. Thank you kind sir ................................... BTW we enjoy waiting 3 months to get them so take your time providing adequate staff to "not disapprove" my application.
Joe Blow
Joe Blow
You guys always give the newbs a hard time. Its funny tho
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
My clients using ask "Can I sue him/her/them/it?" to which I respond you can almost sue anybody you want as long as it isn't completely frivolous. Thing is, I charge $$$$ per hour for anything that I cannot do on a contingency or that I think has a slight chance of prevailing. Your case has a slight chance of prevailing.
I am guessing there is a constitutional issue at hand here regarding the 2nd Amendment and these rather long wait times by the MSP. Thing is, by the time something like this makes it through the Courts, the outcome of SB281 will have been determined, October 1 will have passed, and this will be a moot issue.
Also have to wonder what would happen if the MSP give him the "not disapproved" prior to trial.
Yeah, this thing would have way too many headaches attached to it for me to even think about taking it.
The OP should think about contacting the NRA or the 2nd Amendment Foundation about litigating this matter. However, I think I would take the advice already given and
1) Be patient
2) It is already being looked at by the right people
All of that is assuming that the OP is just bent out of shape over the wait time. If the OP has been wrongly denied, then of course that is a different matter.
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
I believe the issue is that the MSP is the agency that provides the FFL with the NICS number. The MSP does not do this until the "not disapproved" is ready. So, under federal law the FFL CANNOT release the firearm because he/she/it does not have the NICS number. That is unless the FFL wants to violate federal law. Another case of our state legislators not knowing a thing about gun laws or guns.
- Feb 23, 2013
- 1,234
Well I do appreciate the intelligent responses.
If I had seen this tread http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=110538&page=4 I would not have posted the question. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who is not willing to roll over and play dead.
As for the others that somehow feel that their post count here makes them a superior being......that attitude seems to be prevalent among teenagers on internet forums, which is why I usually don't participate in them.
If I had seen this tread http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=110538&page=4 I would not have posted the question. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who is not willing to roll over and play dead.
As for the others that somehow feel that their post count here makes them a superior being......that attitude seems to be prevalent among teenagers on internet forums, which is why I usually don't participate in them.
codefive
Active Member
- Jun 9, 2012
- 432
No one ever gave me a hard time. I lurked in here for a few years before signing up and even then, other than my initial post in the Introuductions section, I never posted until the SHTF a few months ago. IMO, the "hard time" is attributed directly to the content of the newbs post and lack of reading prior to posting.
Just sayin ...
And FWIW ... I did a FTF at MSP 6 weeks ago and they told me point blank "if you dont hear from us in seven days, you may release the firearm". So why should the FFL be any different?
(I got the paperwork in the mail 3 weeks later)
buzzsaw
Ultimate Member
I think someone posted the actual text of the law yesterday which included the language (and correct me if I'm wrong):
"MAY release"
I'm not a lawyer, but my day job has me looking at language in contracts and procedures and all that, and there's nothing that I can see that would really work to pick on here.
As a disclaimer do I wish I could go in, plunk down a few benjamins, and walk out with a new plinker? Absolutely. Does a 7 day wait turning into 45+ make me happy? Absolutely NOT.
I just dont think there's much weight to stand on in the language of the law if you're looking to take this to court.
"MAY release"
I'm not a lawyer, but my day job has me looking at language in contracts and procedures and all that, and there's nothing that I can see that would really work to pick on here.
As a disclaimer do I wish I could go in, plunk down a few benjamins, and walk out with a new plinker? Absolutely. Does a 7 day wait turning into 45+ make me happy? Absolutely NOT.
I just dont think there's much weight to stand on in the language of the law if you're looking to take this to court.
This is spot on. I am an attorney by trade, and my wait begins Sunday when I fill out the paperwork for a new regulated firearm (Sig P226). I too considered filing an for an injunction due to the wait.
The way I see it, the current law is in our favor as well as recent federal case law on the Second Amendment. However, the court system moves slowly. I figured that even if I had a duplicate of my Motion and Memorandum in Support hand delivered to the CPT that runs licensing on the day the FFL filed my paperwork with notice that I intend to file on the 8th day, and I filed in the Circuit Ct. with a Motion to Shorten Time to Respond, the case would be moot before I got before a judge. The current 40-45 day wait time is long, but in the court system, that is nothing. This is especially so when you consider there is no case to file until 7 days have passed. One final hurdle, I feel like that I will have to involve my FFL in the court process; he would be a necessary witness. Leaving aside the fact most folks don't like to get involved in the court process, there may be some reticence on the FFL's part to get involved given that their livelihood depends on favorable treatment from the MSP Licensing Division. To an FFL, you and I are only one sale.
I am glad there are people on our side looking at this. Probably, a coordinated effort involving willing FFL's and multiple parties will be more effective. I would be happy to get involved in any MSI effort. Even if not, good luck. I will be pulling for you.
Kilroy
Ultimate Member
- Jul 27, 2011
- 3,069
In a year, when someone wants to sue over 10 round mags, I'm guessing the thread will look a lot like this.
I'll bet in a year we have a thread devoted to the case that has already been filed regarding that very issues.
- Feb 23, 2013
- 1,234
It is obvious by the way I have been treated by one FFl for a HG purchase that they rely solely on one time customers to stay in bussiness. On the other hand, I have dealt with two other shops on rifles that were a pleasure to deal with and would gladly buy again from them.
I'm one of those who feel that any kind of delay is infringement.
Let's say stuff is going down in a neighborhood so a guy goes out to buy a handgun for the means of self-defense. He does everything right and qualifies, but gets denied the use of that gun for an extended waiting time because of the MSP backlog. Two weeks into this guy patiently waiting for the ability to defend his family with force, he suffers a home invasion and sees a family member killed, right before his eyes because he had no means with which to thwart it.
At this point the guy has been denied his fundamental right to self-defense and self-preservation. In effect, the state and the MSP, due to their rules and backlog, killed his family member.
It's not that far-fetched and at some point, the odds are in favor of a situation like that actually happening.
Buy a double barreled shotgun. Fire 2 blasts off the balcony....
Welcome to the site. We are, for the most part, all on the same side here. Many of us are waiting for paperwork to clear, and are looking to take action to improve the situation. We may take different approaches and have differing opinions on the best course of action, but I think we all ultimately just want the overall situation to improve.
Something to consider - safe bet that there are FFLs and MSP on the site here
I do not feel they are the ones at fault...
Something to consider - safe bet that there are FFLs and MSP on the site here
I do not feel they are the ones at fault...
Last edited:
MSP was unprepared for the onslaught of firearm purchases. They cannot ramp up processing that fast, and just don't have the funding. Ultimately, if our gun-grabbing politicians hadn't introduced all this ridiculous legislation, people would not be buying this much.
RustinRifle55
Active Member
I have spoken to several rank and file MSP. For the most part they support us and 2A. From what I am told it is the upper management in MSP that is in lock step with O'Malley. Upper management has been threatened by O'Malleys thugs to follow the party line or look for a new job.
It seems to me that all of us waiting now are not the ones in big trouble. We'll all get the item before a new law goes into effect in October, if it passes. It's the folks who apply in August and September who might be in a tougher position.
But as others have stated, the real problem is twofold. (1) Whether the law requires the MSP to release the NICS number after 7 days. It isn't good enough if the law says the FFL can release the firearm when the police don't finish in 7 days. Because the FFL also has to obey federal law under which he needs a NICS number. Unless you can show that the MSP must release that number in seven days, I don't know what you would ask a Maryland court to do. If no state law requires the MSP to release that number, you can't get a court order requiring them to release it. And if the Feds are the ones who prohibit a transfer without that number, the delay is their fault, not the fault of MSP under a legal obligation they have. Also, (2) you would have to have a mechanism I'm Md state court to get a ruling in a very short period of time, maybe a week. I don't know if md courts have a process for that (in federal court it is called a temporary restraining order), but one attorney earlier in this string suggested they don't. So even if you could claim that MSP is breaking the law by not releasing that NICS number, you would need some mechanism in Maryland court to ask for an emergency order that you could get in a couple of days. If the Maryland system doesn't accommodate that, I don't see how it helps to start a court process that takes several months, because by then you will get the approval anyway.
But as others have stated, the real problem is twofold. (1) Whether the law requires the MSP to release the NICS number after 7 days. It isn't good enough if the law says the FFL can release the firearm when the police don't finish in 7 days. Because the FFL also has to obey federal law under which he needs a NICS number. Unless you can show that the MSP must release that number in seven days, I don't know what you would ask a Maryland court to do. If no state law requires the MSP to release that number, you can't get a court order requiring them to release it. And if the Feds are the ones who prohibit a transfer without that number, the delay is their fault, not the fault of MSP under a legal obligation they have. Also, (2) you would have to have a mechanism I'm Md state court to get a ruling in a very short period of time, maybe a week. I don't know if md courts have a process for that (in federal court it is called a temporary restraining order), but one attorney earlier in this string suggested they don't. So even if you could claim that MSP is breaking the law by not releasing that NICS number, you would need some mechanism in Maryland court to ask for an emergency order that you could get in a couple of days. If the Maryland system doesn't accommodate that, I don't see how it helps to start a court process that takes several months, because by then you will get the approval anyway.
jaycee2004
Active Member
Thats where I disagree. You figure an average of 11000 MSP checks a month from at least Dec til now, at 10 bucks a pop, well you do the math. It may take them a month or so to find qualified personel, but they have themoney by now. That's just my opinion. Then again all that money is probably getting funneled into anti-2a projects
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