Specific HQL/AR15 question

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  • OrbitalEllipses

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 18, 2013
    4,139
    DPR of MoCo
    Specific SB281 question: HQL and AR15 purchases

    Apologies fellow members, I'm new 'round these parts and I have a quick question that probably isn't suited to the HQL thread.

    Let me give you all a not-hypothetical situation: I may pickup my next regulated weapon on 9/21/2013 due to the waiting period. I would like an AR15 lower receiver and a S&W M&P22; currently I have my paperwork in on the AR15 as I figured it would be more important to take possession of before Oct 1st. This, however, would put me inside the new law and HQL requirement for the M&P22. So let me ask you, would it not behoove me to instead put in the paperwork for the M&P22 now and have it released 9/21/2013 by the FFL (who is doing "early" release) and cancel/redo my paperwork for the AR15 lower since I won't need a HQL to pick it up post Oct. 1? From my understanding, I can pickup the AR15 after Sep 30th, but I can't purchase it starting Oct 1st (purchase, of course happening when I do the paperwork) right?

    Thanks for your time and again, my apologies for the nooby question.


    EDIT: read a couple more things, looks like this is not at all uncommon. The advice I read here was to talk to the FFL to put in the paperwork for the handgun and pick that up before Oct 1st, while the AR15 would be grandfathered in since my form 77r paperwork (that's part of the standard paperwork when buying a regulated weapon, I understand) was filled out prior to Oct 1.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    The M&P22 is a .22 caliber rifle and not regulated. It is cash and carry. You can buy it and walk out the door with it same day.

    The ban and copy cat criteria only apply to centerfire semi-auot rifles, a .22 is not centerfire.
     

    OrbitalEllipses

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 18, 2013
    4,139
    DPR of MoCo
    The M&P22 is a .22 caliber rifle and not regulated. It is cash and carry. You can buy it and walk out the door with it same day.

    The ban and copy cat criteria only apply to centerfire semi-auot rifles, a .22 is not centerfire.

    Perhaps you're referring to the M&P15-22 rifle? I'm referring to the M&P22 handgun, which is still regulated due to being a handgun (that's what the FFL said).
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    Perhaps you're referring to the M&P15-22 rifle? I'm referring to the M&P22 handgun, which is still regulated due to being a handgun (that's what the FFL said).

    Ah, sorry, yep, I was talking the rifle.

    Put both items on the same 77R at the same time. The FFL will be allowed to release them together and you would have to wait 60 days for your next regulated item.
     

    OrbitalEllipses

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 18, 2013
    4,139
    DPR of MoCo
    Ah, sorry, yep, I was talking the rifle.

    Put both items on the same 77R at the same time. The FFL will be allowed to release them together and you would have to wait 60 days for your next regulated item.

    I do not enjoy that the FFL did not mention this (my fault for not knowing) and the paperwork is already in for AR-15. I will need to speak with them ASAP.
     

    OrbitalEllipses

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 18, 2013
    4,139
    DPR of MoCo
    The ironic thing is that I am usually a procrastinator, but SB281 got my attention right away. It got the attention of my wallet too. Only question I have left is whether I have to finish off a couple lowers before October 1, 2013.

    Didn't get my attention until too late, unfortunately. Gun ownership was low priority for me and by the time I got around to reading the bill, it was already late.

    If the answer "yes" then there's no reason for me to buy a lower vs. an assembled AR before October 1st.
     

    Boom Boom

    Hold my beer. Watch this.
    Jul 16, 2010
    16,834
    Carroll
    The answer is yes. Buy and pick up (early release) the handgun before Oct 1st. Then pick up your lower 30+ days later, after Oct 1st.
     

    necrodude

    Active Member
    Aug 22, 2012
    220
    PG county, MD
    Didn't get my attention until too late, unfortunately. Gun ownership was low priority for me and by the time I got around to reading the bill, it was already late.

    If the answer "yes" then there's no reason for me to buy a lower vs. an assembled AR before October 1st.
    Yeah I wish they would already say something about if you can assemble lowers into complete rifles or not after Oct 1st because I have a couple lowers that need to be built up before Oct 1st if that is the case.
     

    OrbitalEllipses

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 18, 2013
    4,139
    DPR of MoCo
    The answer is yes. Buy and pick up (early release) the handgun before Oct 1st. Then pick up your lower 30+ days later, after Oct 1st.

    Which is completely legal and the FFL should have known that... excuse my ignorance, but is there some kind of expiration on my paperwork or am I mixing stuff up? I must read more into our current laws as I am at this point more familiar with the changes.
     

    Boom Boom

    Hold my beer. Watch this.
    Jul 16, 2010
    16,834
    Carroll
    When did you submit the paperwork for the lower? Technically, the expiration is 90 days after MSP completes the paperwork.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Which is completely legal and the FFL should have known that... excuse my ignorance, but is there some kind of expiration on my paperwork or am I mixing stuff up? I must read more into our current laws as I am at this point more familiar with the changes.

    The MSP is taking about 120 days right now to complete the Form 77r. Once completed, you have 90 days to pick up your firearm of the dealer/FFL must cancel it. The NICS check is only good for 30 days though.

    Ultimately, you could pick up your handgun before October 1, 2013, enter into a Verifiable Purchase Order ("VPO") with your dealer for several additional lowers/ARs, and pick one up every 30 days until the VPO is complete. You can also apply for your Designated Collector ("DC") license and complete everything on the VPO once you receive the DC approval.

    There is some intricacies here, and you really should talk to a dealer that is comfortable with the VPO process and willing to help you out.
     

    OrbitalEllipses

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 18, 2013
    4,139
    DPR of MoCo
    When did you submit the paperwork for the lower? Technically, the expiration is 90 days after MSP completes the paperwork.

    8/21/2013 is when I wrote in the paperwork at the FFL. Just need to sort this out with the FFL...who cares what the law is if they won't release the lower after Oct. 1st? The way they couldn't answer my questions at time of purchase, I'm not very confident in them despite their high regard here. I do blame myself, I should have comprehended our laws better.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    8/21/2013 is when I filled it at the FFL. Just need to sort this out with the FFL...who cares what the law is if they won't release the lower after Oct. 1st? The way they couldn't answer my questions at time of purchase, I'm not very confident in them despite their high regard here. I do blame myself, I should have comprehended our laws better.

    You should be able to go to the FFL, lay out the facts (e.g., have you had a regulated purchase in the last 30 days, if so when), lay out what you want to buy right now, and the FFL should be able to lay out a plan for you to either be able to get what you want or tell you why you cannot get it.

    The FFLs that understand this stuff and are doing on-time releases should be making a killing in September.

    By the way, now I really want to know which dealer you have been dealing with.
     

    Boom Boom

    Hold my beer. Watch this.
    Jul 16, 2010
    16,834
    Carroll
    The 8/21 lower paperwork won't come back until at least late December. The lower is not a handgun and is exempted from the ban since it's a verified pre-10/1 purchase (and already in the dealer's possession). If you buy the handgun and pick it up towards the end of September, that still gives you at least three months until the lower paperwork comes back. Even with a 30-day wait after you pick up the handgun, you can pick up the lower at least two months before the paperwork comes back.
     

    OrbitalEllipses

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 18, 2013
    4,139
    DPR of MoCo
    The 8/21 lower paperwork won't come back until at least late December. The lower is not a handgun and is exempted from the ban since it's a verified pre-10/1 purchase (and already in the dealer's possession). If you buy the handgun and pick it up towards the end of September, that still gives you at least three months until the lower paperwork comes back. Even with a 30-day wait after you pick up the handgun, you can pick up the lower at least two months before the paperwork comes back.

    "Early" release; it would be 30 days regardless of the paperwork being returned or not the way I'm understanding this. All I needed to know has been gleaned, thank you gentlemen.

    I still contend that if I can't build an AR15 the way I want post 10/1 then there's no reason to buy a lower vs. an assembled "illegal" one right now.
     

    Boom Boom

    Hold my beer. Watch this.
    Jul 16, 2010
    16,834
    Carroll
    I still contend that if I can't build an AR15 the way I want post 10/1 then there's no reason to buy a lower vs. an assembled "illegal" one right now.

    There is no such MD code or case law. No such case will ever be filed by the AG's office, since it greatly risks turning the entirety of SB281 on its ear as unconstitutional.
     

    OrbitalEllipses

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 18, 2013
    4,139
    DPR of MoCo
    There is no such MD code or case law. No such case will ever be filed by the AG's office, since it greatly risks turning the entirety of SB281 on its ear as unconstitutional.

    Yet we have no straight answer; I am knowingly building an illegal weapon, but the firearm portion as legally defined was purchased pre-10/1...if they wanted to confiscate it couldn't they just say that the weapon was built to illegal specification when it came unequipped and should have been built to the current legal standard?

    In my mind the FFL can still refuse to sell/release the one AR15 lower I have with them after 10/1 because that's not technically in my possession yet, as the law states it must be in order to be grandfathered. Whether that's morally right or wrong I won't get into, but *legally* they could do that yeah?
     

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