Indiana Jones
Wolverine
Have you switched occupations to being a male prostitute?
Sorry, I couldn't pass that up
Im in a transitional phase. "I dont work with the males because I USED TO BE ONE"
Fed. Judge in NY: No 4A rights for Int'l Travelers. What's on your device?
- Thread starter Jim12
- Start date
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Im in a transitional phase. "I dont work with the males because I USED TO BE ONE"
- Jan 30, 2013
- 34,089
Right. You do it voluntarily, for convenience.
We're talking about every international traveler, US Citizen included, whose price of readmission into this country is to have their electronic life downloaded for current use or future reference, at the whim and mercy of the government.
Is this really the USA? Unbelievable.
Benanov
PM Bomber
I can't change the law - so I'll change my computing habits.
I've basically had it come down to "if I travel internationally, I'm not bringing any of my data with me - I'm bringing a wiped, freshly installed laptop that has never connected to any internet services."
My private crypto keys will not be brought with me - I can have a friend issue some (via his VPN) or I can SSH home via a rather long complex password stored in my head if I need access to my data.
I could also use TAILS, and the preinstall of a known trusted OS means I can verify it on the road.
When I am preparing to return home - same deal. Wipe laptop, reinstall. Fresh install over the border.
As for phone, I'll buy a prepaid there.
If there is a point where my portable electronic devices capable of firmware upgrades or used for any sort of general purpose computing are ever out of my sight in the hands of a government agent, they will be recycled upon my return home.
I have been looking into the "fully free" RYF laptop that's basically a recycled IBM ThinkPad with all the binary firmware removed. It'd be such a bitch to subvert that in an undetectable manner.
If I'm moving out of the country, I'll have to ship the data over a VPN. I guess I'll have to compress the hell out of my backups.
You can search all you want. My laptops will boot and I can "run Microsoft Word" (so required so that you can show the laptop is operational). There just won't be anything of value there.
I've basically had it come down to "if I travel internationally, I'm not bringing any of my data with me - I'm bringing a wiped, freshly installed laptop that has never connected to any internet services."
My private crypto keys will not be brought with me - I can have a friend issue some (via his VPN) or I can SSH home via a rather long complex password stored in my head if I need access to my data.
I could also use TAILS, and the preinstall of a known trusted OS means I can verify it on the road.
When I am preparing to return home - same deal. Wipe laptop, reinstall. Fresh install over the border.
As for phone, I'll buy a prepaid there.
If there is a point where my portable electronic devices capable of firmware upgrades or used for any sort of general purpose computing are ever out of my sight in the hands of a government agent, they will be recycled upon my return home.
I have been looking into the "fully free" RYF laptop that's basically a recycled IBM ThinkPad with all the binary firmware removed. It'd be such a bitch to subvert that in an undetectable manner.
If I'm moving out of the country, I'll have to ship the data over a VPN. I guess I'll have to compress the hell out of my backups.
You can search all you want. My laptops will boot and I can "run Microsoft Word" (so required so that you can show the laptop is operational). There just won't be anything of value there.
Tungsten
Ultimate Member
I wonder what would happen if someone had a laptop of virus executables.
Cheeky.
Although I entirely agree. Limited government, limited government powers, and the unalienable rights of those that give consent to be governed once seemed like such a good plan. When was it decided that government needed to provide consent so we could exercise a fraction of rights that were enumerated (so there would be no confusion of course)? Perhaps it was then that government of the people, for the people, and by the people perished from this earth.
What about shipping the laptop back into the States? I wouldn't imagine they would have the time to harass UPS over every laptop that comes through their system. That is, if they could even identify all of them.
There are simpler solutions. If one must travel overseas with sensitive data, get an encrypted USB Keychain like the Ironkey and a cheap travel laptop. One can work off the keychain, load apps on it, and even boot off it depending on configuration. Thus the nosy Customs officials overseas or on one's return could inspect the laptop and satisfy their burning desire to violate your privacy.
Now an intrepid Customs agent might seek your USB devices, but giving them password access is your call. Easier to leave a USB drive with them vs leave a laptop behind. Also have the option of mailing/erasing/tossing the encrypted flash drive before returning. If erasing and files need to be uploaded to the cloud, then your exposure is limited to how/where you upload (e.g. to foreign parties, the NSA, etc) but not Customs officials.
I do wonder what policy is for federal employees returning from overseas. I sometimes travel on a government passport with an encrypted laptop. There's nothing that I would put on the laptop that's particularly sensitive, but I wouldn't part with my password on return (against regs, on a few levels) and would leave the laptop with them if they insisted. I imagine that they would eventually have to return it. It's stupidity that I don't hope to deal with.
You have got to be freakin' kidding me.
Why anyone would subject themselves to that level of infringement and pay for the privilege is beyond me.
I'm glad I no longer do extensive foreign travel like I did in the past.
Never got off an international flight at the same time another one landed huh? Hundreds of people waiting at passport control and 5 walking through global pass. Literally takes a minute at a kiosk.
brewergeek
Active Member
Depends on the agency. Some say no laptops, some have "travel" laptops/tablets that are scanned, wiped and re-imaged after every trip (and never connect back to "home") that they use for foreign travel instead of their normal computers. General rule for any device that leaves work sites is to have the whole disk encrypted or never have PII information on disk/phone.
Brooklyn
I stand with John Locke.
You know in theory you could cause a agent to be in unlawful posession of classified material.. wonder if they have that problem covered.
Benanov
PM Bomber
NSA has been known to intercept mail. You'd have to be a high enough vaule target, though.
I do have a solution, read below.
Well, the problem isn't "I'm leaving my property with them" (as they will scan it / store it) it's that you need to get your data home somehow.
Only thing I can think of is public/private crypto, but that only works one way - coming home (which is good enough to answer Evil Twin's question). My public key is on many keyservers - it's public, after all. It's *trivial* to grab it and use it to encrypt something.
When I get home, my private key and password will unencrypt it.
This is unfortunately somewhat asymmetric - I can get data home, but I can't take it with me going OUT of the country. If I bring my private key, that means they can make a copy of it on my way out (they won't get the password, of course) - so I can't take it with me...so I could make a new keypair abroad - but that means I couldn't have trusted it (signed it with my private key) before I left.
However, this might be thinking too hard. Jacob Applebaum (who *is* harassed every time he crosses the border) has stated that he dd'd the bill of rights into the block device of his USB sticks - and mentioned that he did that - and the agents weren't able to read it. (Funny, I could.)
- Jan 30, 2013
- 34,089
Here's a simpler one: Prohibit the government from violating citizens' Constitutional Rights. Pretty novel in this day and age, isn't it?
- Jan 30, 2013
- 34,089
There already is a law for that.
I wish the "Constitutional Law Professor" would address these concerns.
Benanov
PM Bomber
Why? It's in his best interest not to do so. He can decry "protect the children!" and "we catch kiddie diddlers" and "terrorism!"
Tungsten
Ultimate Member
sd cards arent big, they can hold 64gb or more. they are small enough to hide anywhere. there are any number of places where it can be put that no one will look for unless you are a high value target.
Benanov
PM Bomber
MicroSD cards, maybe. If they find it, now you have raised a lot more suspicion. We're talking "is there child porn on that flashdrive" level of suspicion here. Enjoy explaining your way out of that one.
The idea that you don't take your data with you back across the border physically is what I suggested earlier. They can't search what you don't have with you.
Tungsten
Ultimate Member
Well I wouldn't have child porn on it so there really isnt much to explain. LOL that's a very odd scenario to suddenly jump to. Additionally they are looking for explosives, weapons and drugs. They dont care about small little memory sticks buried in your luggage. They may routinely DL data from a laptop but they arent routinely rooting around your cameras, ipods, "personal massagers" etc. for a postage stamp sized piece of plastic. If they ask why I hid the sd card I would simply say I didnt want the data stolen... which is the truth. If they do find it and make a copy of it, well then that isnt any worse than them copying your hard drive in the first place. At least you give yourself a chance at keeping your data private.
Yeah, bc the NSA isnt looking at everything in the cloud anyway. I would trust my data with some yokel fng at the TSA checkpoint much more than I would trust it in some "secure" cloud.
Bohlieve410
Ultimate Member
- Feb 21, 2011
- 1,575
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