Black powder hypothetical:

tallen702 · Sep 4, 2020

Regarding Gatling guns:

Tippmann (yes, the company that used to make the .22 and .17 MG repros and then paintball guns) now makes one that runs 9mm using Glock mags.

Biggfoot44 · Sep 4, 2020

The "-30" and "-35" in .30-30 and .25-35 was a marketing ploy by Winchester . Even though it had nothing to do with the actual powder charge , they wanted a catchy nomenclature , to give an aproximation of the power , that was used to the two number nomenclature of BP rounds they were familiar with .

toppkatt · Sep 4, 2020

tallen702 said:
Regarding Gatling guns:

Tippmann (yes, the company that used to make the .22 and .17 MG repros and then paintball guns) now makes one that runs 9mm using Glock mags.

Still several thousand $$$$, and still not concealable. :innocent0

tallen702 · Sep 4, 2020

toppkatt said:
Still several thousand $$$$, and still not concealable.

That'll fit in the cargo area of a SUV. Throw a tonneau cover over it and there ya go! :innocent0

Pinecone · Sep 5, 2020

Biggfoot44 said:
The "-30" and "-35" in .30-30 and .25-35 was a marketing ploy by Winchester . Even though it had nothing to do with the actual powder charge , they wanted a catchy nomenclature , to give an aproximation of the power , that was used to the two number nomenclature of BP rounds they were familiar with .

Actually the .30-30 DID use 30 grains of powder.

The .30 Winchester Smokeless first appeared in Winchester's catalog No. 55, dated August 1895. When chambered in the Winchester Model 1894 carbine and rifle, it was also known as .30 Winchester Center Fire or .30 WCF. When the cartridge was chambered in the Marlin Model 1893 rifle, rival gunmaker Marlin used the designation .30-30 or .30-30 Smokeless. The added -30 stands for the standard load of 30 grains (1.9 g) of early smokeless powder and is based on late-19th century American naming conventions for black powder-filled cartridges.

kmittleman · Sep 5, 2020

tallen702 said:
So, the point here (that I feel is being missed) is that even if they made percussion caps and BP illegal, they are things that you could make at home whereas smokeless powder and modern primers are not.

I remember reading several articles in the Backwoodsman that speculated on this idea. One article argued that a flintlock rifle was the best SHTF gun because everything could be made. Flints could be found and shaped, BP can be made, and round balls could be cast. Another article recounted someone’s grandmother who made BP in her kitchen somewhere in the Ozarks. She used chicken droppings(?), saltpeter,etc.

Not very practical but interesting to think about.

WeaponsCollector · Sep 5, 2020

Doctor_M said:
Not to be a smart ass, but I'm stockpiling enough ammo and components so that wont be an issue in my lifetime... maybe my kids' lifetimes.

THIS.

DutchV · Sep 5, 2020

kmittleman said:
I remember reading several articles in the Backwoodsman that speculated on this idea. One article argued that a flintlock rifle was the best SHTF gun because everything could be made. Flints could be found and shaped, BP can be made, and round balls could be cast. Another article recounted someone’s grandmother who made BP in her kitchen somewhere in the Ozarks. She used chicken droppings(?), saltpeter,etc.

Not very practical but interesting to think about.

Saltpeter can be made from urine or bat guano if you're desperate but buying from a garden supply store is simpler.

Harrys · Sep 6, 2020

toppkatt said:
Incorrect. It was the first successful sporting cartridge designed to use the then new smokeless powders. Not sure where people are getting the 'originally a black powder cartridge' info on the .30-30 cartridge, other than the time frame in which it was designed and brought to market.
You are correct as to the nomenclature of the .45-70 cartridge, however, I have shot the .45-70 with black powder loads from my 1886 Winchester (Manf. in 1887) and I shot considerably more than 3 rounds before it required cleaning. The match required 20 rounds and the rifle didn't get cleaned until after the match was over. I still have a box of original .45-70 black powder loads from back in the day with balloon web and lead bullets. Thanks to my grandfather for both the rifle and ammunition.

Thanks for the correction on the 30-30 cartage. I has some old reloading info from the late 30s which had black powder as one of the powders and took it for granted. Thanks again.

Brickman301 · Sep 8, 2020

Flintlocks, would eliminate the need of percussion caps. Percussion caps can be made, they sell kits. I have one and it works well.
Not semi auto, but there are a lot of lever guns, that shoot well with black powder. 44-40, .45 colt, And 45-70, are easy to find now.

Archeryrob · Sep 8, 2020

I need a #10 capper and can't find one. My 1858's used 10's and my 50 cal CVA ia supposed to use #11's but they falloff unless I bite them to oval them. #10's stay on and work better.

Brickman301 · Sep 8, 2020

Archeryrob said:
I need a #10 capper and can't find one. My 1858's used 10's and my 50 cal CVA ia supposed to use #11's but they falloff unless I bite them to oval them. #10's stay on and work better.

I’ve never seen a #10 capper

Archeryrob · Sep 9, 2020

11's work but I have to oval them like an egg. Not a great solution.

MannyCA on one of the gun forums was making them but gave it up as it was probably too much work for the money he made.

Blacksmith101 · Sep 9, 2020

Brickman301 said:
Flintlocks, would eliminate the need of percussion caps. Percussion caps can be made, they sell kits. I have one and it works well.
Not semi auto, but there are a lot of lever guns, that shoot well with black powder. 44-40, .45 colt, And 45-70, are easy to find now.

Can you provide a link? I couldn't find it on Midway and thought Forsters stopped making them years ago, because I have wanted one.

DutchV · Sep 9, 2020

Blacksmith101 said:
Can you provide a link? I couldn't find it on Midway and thought Forsters stopped making them years ago, because I have wanted one.

That product doesn't show up on Forster's site. Probably wasn't a big seller.
Ebay and Gunbroker are your best bet.

Rambler · Sep 9, 2020

Blacksmith101 said:
Can you provide a link? I couldn't find it on Midway and thought Forsters stopped making them years ago, because I have wanted one.

https://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.myshopify.com/collections/products/products/11-percussion-cap-maker

This company was discussed in a thread on reloading .22 rf

ironhead7544 · Sep 9, 2020

For black powder cartridge rifles, the 44-40 lever would be the way to go. The cartridge was designed to seal the chamber when fired and much less fouling gets into the receiver.

Works well with the right black powder bullet.

Muleskinner · Sep 9, 2020

This post implies people will comply...At what point will your desire to remain free and uncontrolled be more important to you than your desire to remain "law abiding?" I see an awful lot of gun owners far too willing to give up their rights and freedom just to be able to proclaim themselves a a "law abiding citizen"...Sure glad our founders didn't suffer from that defect..

Blacksmith101 · Sep 9, 2020

Rambler said:
https://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.myshopify.com/collections/products/products/11-percussion-cap-maker

This company was discussed in a thread on reloading .22 rf

I have one of those already but still want a Fosters.

I posted a link in post #23 to that there is also a link to their priming compound and some other helpful links
like the differences in percussion caps #10's and #11's and the dimensions of caps vs nipples and why squeezing caps to make them fit is a bad idea.

Blacksmith101 · Sep 9, 2020

ironhead7544 said:
For black powder cartridge rifles, the 44-40 lever would be the way to go. The cartridge was designed to seal the chamber when fired and much less fouling gets into the receiver.

Works well with the right black powder bullet.

You can get both a rifle in .44-40 and a handgun and have ammo compatibility. It was common in the old west.
https://www.ammoland.com/2015/02/uberti-3-guns-44-40-rifle-and-revolvers-review/

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