T/C Omega fouling and power belts

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  • pre64hunter

    Active Member
    Mar 19, 2010
    658
    Harford County
    I like hunting early muzzle loader season in October but I'm not a big black powder enthusiast although I've had more than a few and been shooting them since the 1970's. I just want to keep it simple and go hunting.
    I started back around 1980 with a T/C Renegade flint lock in PA, used it for a while in MD then a Knight Wolverine, now a Thompson Center Omega 50 caliber because of using 209 primers instead of percussion caps.
    I use 295 grain Power Belts and 100 grains black powder or Pyrodex RS. It shoots OK but should shoot better. The problem is it fouls so bad, even after one shot different sabot/bullets I've tried are impossible to seat, even Power Belts.
    The gun I have is an older one and I replaced the breach plug with the later design and the fouling problem has improved. I have a good supply of both Pyrodex and black powder and would rather not start experimenting with all kinds of different newest and greatest powder substitutes. I'm thinking of trying the new Hornady BORE DRIVER FTX BULLETS or the Federal Premium Trophy Copper Muzzle Loading Bullet, both are supposed to be easier to load.
    I don't mind switching up powder and loading components but I don't want this to become an expensive time consuming hobby.
    Anybody out there that tried everything and found something that really works good. Thanks.
     

    Todd S

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2012
    1,568
    Glen Rock, PA
    I have an Omega, that had the same issue with Pyrodex and 777. I switched to Blackhorn 209 and I can shoot the whole day without having to clean it. Although, I normally run a spit patch every 5 rounds. I refuse to shoot Powerbelts anymore. I shot a doe, broadside at 15 yards. It knocked hair off of her. She bucked up then ran across a field 400 yards until I lost sight of her. Not a drop of blood. Brown fur at point of impact. The only thing I could come up with, was that the bullet separated from the skirt and slid out of the barrel. So now my combo on that gun is 200gr sabots and 110gr Blackhorn 209.

    BTW, this rifle is retired. I slacked in cleaning a number of years ago and now have a rough spot about 8 inches from the muzzle. Accuracy is just not where I need it. I have a CVA Accura, now.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,728
    Yes. Use Blackhorn 209. It isn't BP derivative like the other substitutes are. It produces fouling more akin to smokeless powder (just, well more of it). It is ashy residue it leaves. Doesn't need relatively quick clean up and you can certainly load dozens of rounds before you need to consider cleaning. You may need a special plug for your ML to shoot it though as it is harder to ignite. You want to use a magnum 209 primer for sure.

    BH209 also produces significantly higher muzzle velocities for same powder charge and lower recoil. Basically it is more efficient than one of the other substitutes and definitely WAY more so than black powder.

    I've noticed it is a bit less smoky. Not a ton less, but somewhat less.

    As an example, with a 240gr .430 XTP using a .44 sabot in my CVA wolf I get around 1700fps with 100gr volumetric BP, about 1800 with Pyrodex RS, about 1900 with 777 and 2000 with BH209. Numbers rounded a bit. Recoil for BH209 is just a small amount less than all of the others, but you get way more energy out of it.

    BH209 is also not hygroscopic and moisture resistant (it'll work just fine once dried out. Obviously won't work when soaking wet). Others like Pyrodex and BP will absorb moisture and will absolutely change velocity and accuracy over time due to that (IE sitting in the can a couple of years) unless it a very humidity controlled environment.

    Accuracy is a bit dependent on getting the best load for sure, but I've had accuracy issues from one season to the next with other substitute powders, but then works great opening a new can. I only dabbled with real BP a small amount, mostly just Pyrodex, 777 and now BH209.

    Anyway, ignoring seasonal "old powder" issues, BP I was seeing about 2" groups at 100yds. About the same with Pyrodex. 777 I was seeing 1.5" groups and BH209 is giving me 3/4" 3 shot groups at 100yds.

    For me, with my CVA Wolf, I'd like to try FTX bullets as the 265gr would shoot a bit softer and from what I've seen tested, it might do a little better in terminal performance than what I am using now. But anyway, what works great for me is 300gr .430 (44 magnum) Hornady XTP bullets in harvester 44 magnum Sabots using a 110gr load of BH209. That gets me about 2000fps and is darned flat shooting to 100yds for sure and still plenty flat for 150yd shooting without worrying about adjusting point of aim. Not sure I'd want to use it really past 200 because of bullet drop. There an FTX would really shine, as well as a longer barrel. I'd maybe trust a 265gr .430 FTX with a 26" or 28" barrel and a 110-120gr BH209 load to 250 or even 300yds. Max number I've tested is 10 rounds before cleaning, but all loaded fine and accuracy did not seem to degrade at all.

    With Pyrodex RS and sabots I could cram 1, possibly 2 reloads down the bore before I'd HAVE to clean. 777 wasn't really much better because of the crust ring it creates (yes, I was NOT using ML 209 primers which supposedly make that better). Again, if I gave it a real good hard shove, I could seat a 2nd round before needing to clean. BP was the same, maybe 1 reload and then I'd need to clean it (if I used a grease patch I might have been able to reload 2-3. Didn't bother, yes I know my fault).
     

    tosainu1

    Active Member
    May 10, 2005
    826
    Bowie Md
    Pyrodex or 777 to me doesn’t matter

    I use the tighter fitting (compared to what your using) Shockwave sabots from Thompson Center in 250 or 300 grain and I don’t get fouling issues using 2 50 grain Pyrodex or 777 pellets. Try those and see if that’s the issue. They’re more accurate at longer range for me also which is a bonus.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,346
    HoCo
    Here is my experience.
    Pyrodex sucks
    Power belts suck for accuracy out at 100 Yards and I'd only use a hollow point one and < 50 yards

    For reduced fowling and decent accuracy and simple formula
    Thompson Center Shockwaves or Traditions Smackdown Sabots. (I've shot BOTH out to 200 yards to compare and they were within 1" center of 3 shot groups to each other.
    2 White Hots

    I do shoot BH209 and either smackdowns (regular inline) or for my Silencerco Moderated the Federal Premium B.O.R. Lock (the big lead ones)
    BH209 I don't need to clean between shots to get same POI. For White Hots, one swipe from a snake or push through a couple patches works great for range use. I always shoot them when hunting clean.
     

    GSuders

    Active Member
    Dec 13, 2017
    148
    Keymar
    I bought a T/C omega new in 2007. I set it up and used 777 and T/C superglide shockwaves. That setup worked really well. 2 years ago I switched to Harverter Scorpion PT Gold sabots and they are just flat nasty. Last 2 bucks I harvested the one dropped and the other went 15 yards. I use 2 50 grain 777 along with a 300 grain with a crush rib sabot. I can usually get 3 shots before needing to clean the gun. I was new to muzzeloading when I bought this gun so maybe BH 209 would be better, but I'm confident with my setup so I continue to use it.
     

    willtill

    The Dude Abides
    MDS Supporter
    May 15, 2007
    24,524
    I shoot 777 (90gr) and T/C Arms Shockwaves (250gr) in my T/C Arms Omega also. The best load for it. I normally swab a spit patch after every shot when on the range with it. Just makes seating the next sabot easier.
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    I have an Omega that uses 90 gr Pyrodex powder and the Black MMp sabots with 45 cal Hornady pistol bullets into little groups.
    I'm getting ready to try some of the red MMp sabots in a 54 cal scout I bought off a forum member with the 45 bullets to see if it can best it.
    I like the Scout a scad better because the ramrod is the same length as the barrel which the Omega is not.
    The Omega does have a better trigger though and is easier to clean.

    Last year I helped a guy zero his rifle a Traditions I think it was and he bought a bunch of the power belted bullets that had a different skirt vs all the others I seen.
    With two pellets it was a moa rifle from a rested position, but again it had to have a ramrod extension for field use which I just don't feature that much but it was a very well shooting rifle.

    I laughed when I seen the packaging for the power belts he had brought but sure enough they worked very well in that rifle.
    I think the primary difference with the PB's he had brought was that the skirt was more of a nylon type of product more in line with the construction of the MMp sabots.
    There were no fouling issues afterwards when the rifle was wiped out and cleaned and it shot great.
     

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