Lubrication warning

Matlack · Dec 3, 2020

teratos said:
Is this in reference to Chad's Sauce on SOTAR where you take Mobil 1 synthetic grease and mix with 0w-40 until a honey-like consistency is achieved?

Yes and no. My issue is not with the info he is providing, its with what people are doing based on his video. Between 1:40 and 2:55 he says what he did and leaves it vague and suggest they try mixing to see what works for them. But you can cause issues mixing random stuff. Again, I suggest people dont just start mixing various oils and greases and be careful.

MaicoBill · Dec 3, 2020

I noticed where he said to lube the lugs.
In the link I provided, they said not to lube the lugs.

outrider58 · Dec 3, 2020

Will someone show me a planet where people do this so I can steer clear of it?
You're trying to tell me people make their own "special" blends of gun lube?

I've lived too long... :sad20:

3paul10 · Dec 3, 2020

outrider58 said:
Will someone show me a planet where people do this so I can steer clear of it?
You're trying to tell me people make their own "special" blends of gun lube?

I've lived too long...

I've got a fresh batch of special blend all made up for you.......

outrider58 · Dec 3, 2020

3paul10 said:
I've got a fresh batch of special blend all made up for you.......

Tempted... :brows:

Matlack · Dec 3, 2020

jjones88 said:
Ah this is what I was poking at. You said something super important. “You don’t understand the chemistry of them”.

That should be an /end thread right there.

If you don’t understand the chemistry you shouldn’t mix chemicals period. No matter what the use is, firearms or not. The success of a bad mixing totally depends on the end state mechanical device. Packing bearings versus a direct impingement system are not even remotely the same. The transmission of a car and the rotating of a bolt are similar motions but again slightly different. Drilling a hole or milling a piece of steel is again nothing in comparison.

Guns are insanely resilient devices. Firearms from the 1700s live today and are perfectly safe to fire and they didn’t have the billion dollar gun industry behind them selling products. Simple water and animal fat boiled down works just fine. Pending the mechanical action and it’s design lots of guns operate with no lubrications just fine and others fall on their face. The folks in the Middle East and Africa aren’t having guns disintegrate because they aren’t buying unicorn tear gun oil.

The entire success of a lubricate begins and ends with its chemistry. Motor oil is a perfect example of a lubricate that you can use to go to the range and shoot all day. It’s a horrible rust inhibitor. Crisco is an amazing rust inhibitor and an okay lubricate but it’ll burn off at high flash points. It’s all in the chemistry and end use. I wouldn’t use any of these in the machine shop.

Sorry to pick on you and your thread but you blanket statement posts are extremely bad press for new people coming into this hobby. Doing a google search and seeing this stuff is how “fudd lore” (and I’m not saying this is! Like I said earlier you have to know what your intended use is...) continues to this day.

As someone said above, the use of basic CLP goes a super long way though if you were to look at its chemistry it’s terrible at all of those long term, and yet guns are covered in it daily and will probably outlive us all.

When I say I dont understand the chemistry, I mean I am not a chemist. I understand lubricants and their uses just fine. I know who to call if I have a question or am uncertain. It would be like if I were to have a conversation with a chemist who specializes in oils about why the lubricant 1 is slightly better than lubricant 2 or it would be like him trying to figure out why my shaft needs the bearings and the lubrication method that it does. Hence, when I said dont mix random stuff, I mean dont start mixing random stuff. You can not only damage your very nice firearm, but you can also hurt your own health.

I have watched some of the people who want to mix random stuff they happen to have access too, and said OMG dont do that. I dont want to see anyone get hurt because they have no idea what they are doing.

BeoBill · Dec 3, 2020

jjones88 said:
Ah this is what I was poking at. You said something super important. “You don’t understand the chemistry of them”.

That should be an /end thread right there.

If you don’t understand the chemistry you shouldn’t mix chemicals period. No matter what the use is, firearms or not. The success of a bad mixing totally depends on the end state mechanical device. Packing bearings versus a direct impingement system are not even remotely the same. The transmission of a car and the rotating of a bolt are similar motions but again slightly different. Drilling a hole or milling a piece of steel is again nothing in comparison.

Guns are insanely resilient devices. Firearms from the 1700s live today and are perfectly safe to fire and they didn’t have the billion dollar gun industry behind them selling products. Simple water and animal fat boiled down works just fine. Pending the mechanical action and it’s design lots of guns operate with no lubrications just fine and others fall on their face. The folks in the Middle East and Africa aren’t having guns disintegrate because they aren’t buying unicorn tear gun oil.

The entire success of a lubricate begins and ends with its chemistry. Motor oil is a perfect example of a lubricate that you can use to go to the range and shoot all day. It’s a horrible rust inhibitor. Crisco is an amazing rust inhibitor and an okay lubricate but it’ll burn off at high flash points. It’s all in the chemistry and end use. I wouldn’t use any of these in the machine shop.

Sorry to pick on you and your thread but you blanket statement posts are extremely bad press for new people coming into this hobby. Doing a google search and seeing this stuff is how “fudd lore” (and I’m not saying this is! Like I said earlier you have to know what your intended use is...) continues to this day.

As someone said above, the use of basic CLP goes a super long way though if you were to look at its chemistry it’s terrible at all of those long term, and yet guns are covered in it daily and will probably outlive us all.

^^^^^^ What he said.

Back in my younger days I worked on lube requirements for heavy equipment with a degreed lubrication scientist (I forget the exact descriptor; it's been too many years). I learned a lot I didn't know, but the important point was/is that I don't know which additives are included in a given lubricant nor how that package will react with others.

JohnnyE · Dec 3, 2020

BeoBill said:
^^^^^^ What he said.

Back in my younger days I worked on lube requirements for heavy equipment with a degreed lubrication scientist (I forget the exact descriptor; it's been too many years). I learned a lot I didn't know, but the important point was/is that I don't know which additives are included in a given lubricant nor how that package will react with others.

A bunch of years ago I worked with a tribologist, who studies friction of bodies in motion, lubrication and related sciences. He shared a load of his lubrication knowledge. Is this the field you're thinking of?

JB01 · Dec 3, 2020

The attached reference and charts may be of interest:

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1865/grease-compatibility
https://www.panamlubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Base-Oil-Compatibility-Chart.png
http://www.dulub.com.tw/brochure_01-to-64/pdf_English/35_eng-Synthetic_Oil_Compat_Chart.pdf

JB

smokey · Dec 3, 2020

teratos said:
Is this in reference to Chad's Sauce on SOTAR where you take Mobil 1 synthetic grease and mix with 0w-40 until a honey-like consistency is achieved?

If you wanted thicker lube, why mix grease and oil instead of just getting something like gear oil?

GunBum · Dec 3, 2020

As a chemist, this whole thread makes me sad.

John from MD · Dec 3, 2020

GunBum said:
As a chemist, this whole thread makes me sad.

Ok, you need cheering up so I'll tell you a sort of funny story.

Back in my chemistry class days, a few of us were bored so we decided to screw around with chemicals. So, one of us go the bright idea of mixing bicarb in a test tube and shoot corks at one another. Well, one genius said hey, we can get more bang for our buck if we put some SULFURIC ACID in with the seltzer. Well he was right, those corks AND FLUID were flying all over the place AND US.

Later in class, people were starting to snicker at me and another guy. (all boys school) We didn't get it until the sleeve of my shirt fell off. :lol:

That night, eight boys had to sneak in the house and change before being seen. My mom wondered out loud where a pair of my pant and a certain shirt got too. :lol2:

I hope this cheered you up and teaches all you other geniuses not to mix stuff up unless you know what you are doing.

alucard0822 · Dec 3, 2020

smokey0118 said:
If you wanted thicker lube, why mix grease and oil instead of just getting something like gear oil?

Gear oil sucks for anything other than geartrains/diffs. First off it F-ing stinks, the shear resistant additives smell horrible. It has a LOT of emulsifier additive, soaks up water and makes a horrible rust preventative. There really is no reason to slather an AR in grease and motor oil, makes a mess at best, will jam up in cold weather, and pretty much overcomplocates what should be a simple thing. A little decent CLP, on metal to metal surfaces and few drops on the bolt, then a couple drops on the bolt and lugs through the ejection port every couple thousand rounds if you want extra insurance in dirty environments, and you won't have a problem . No reason to reinvent the wheel or mix up some random crap to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

smokey · Dec 3, 2020

alucard0822 said:
Gear oil sucks for anything other than geartrains/diffs. First off it F-ing stinks, the shear resistant additives smell horrible. It has a LOT of emulsifier additive, soaks up water and makes a horrible rust preventative. There really is no reason to slather an AR in grease and motor oil, makes a mess at best, will jam up in cold weather, and pretty much overcomplocates what should be a simple thing. A little decent CLP, on metal to metal surfaces and few drops on the bolt, then a couple drops on the bolt and lugs through the ejection port every couple thousand rounds if you want extra insurance in dirty environments, and you won't have a problem . No reason to reinvent the wheel or mix up some random crap to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Yup. I'm partial to LP, but yeah.

Art3 · Dec 3, 2020

smokey0118 said:
If you wanted thicker lube, why mix grease and oil instead of just getting something like gear oil?

alucard0822 said:
Gear oil sucks for anything other than geartrains/diffs. First off it F-ing stinks....

Yeah...

gremlin42 · Dec 3, 2020

Just here to say that MDS has given me dozens of excellent potential band names.

Magnumite · Dec 4, 2020

Pretty soon the Mobil One group will be along and make a blanket statement about it being the end all lubricant. Oh, and even if what we use works...we’re stupid for spending that much money for 6 ounces of it.

+1 for Matlack. And GunBum.

temccoy · Dec 4, 2020

This is an interesting topic. I think you need to be more worried about mixing solvents than mixing lubricants. I have a friend who worked in a gun store, and was an armorer in the Army, which I mention because he should have known better. He mixed solvents trying to clean a barrel, and ended up ruining the barrel completely. I know this because he asked me if I wanted to buy the rifle and told me what happened to the barrel. I believe one of the solvents he used was Sweet's, which you have to very careful with because of the high ammonia content.

willtill · Dec 4, 2020

Magnumite said:
Pretty soon the Mobil One group will be along and make a blanket statement about it being the end all lubricant. Oh, and even if what we use works...we’re stupid for spending that much money for 6 ounces of it.

+1 for Matlack. And GunBum.

There's just no way to hold an intelligent dissenting discussion pertinent to each group's belief. I equate the Mobil One group and Trump Derangement Syndrome group in the same category.

Matlack · Jun 3, 2021

Thread revival ... about freaking time he made some sort of statement. I only got kicked out of his FB pages because I warned him about this BS. He still doesnt sound like he understands what could happen to someone's AR if they do this stupid crap. "Common theme I am hearing in the AR industry," that you directly caused!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks6uAO6gDbY

Lubrication warning

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