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Old September 26th, 2020, 10:23 PM #21
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not a fan of the shottie for HD. despite myth, you can somewhat easily miss with a shotgun, esp at closer ranges. just hit a 3 gun match and you'll see... next is, with a long barrel there is more out there for a bad guy to grab, and it's unwieldy going around corners etc. and of course the kick, esp for smaller statured folks. then of course, limited mag capacity and pretty hard to reload.

i actually think a pistol caliber carbine (pcc) in 9mm is an ideal HD firearm. you hold it with both hands and into your shoulder so it's pretty steady. not nearly as unwieldy as a shottie. almost no recoil. huge mag capacity.

that said, i have a bedside glock 31 for hd. small form factor.

but there's a reason PCC's are normally at the top of competitions, pretty easy to shoot fast & accurately. even folks with limited firearms experience can pick up a pcc and do pretty good with it.
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Old September 26th, 2020, 10:36 PM #22
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The early consensus and Grimmar15's post are not in conflict .

I stand by my assertions that a 12ga is the best for total multi tasking for absolutely everything . Best gun for specific HD , and best HD gun for non shooters are two separate discussions in themselves .
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Old September 26th, 2020, 10:41 PM #23
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Double barrel shotgun... say Joe.....lol
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Old September 26th, 2020, 11:12 PM #24
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Originally Posted by Inigoes View Post
For the family? 20 guage shotgun.

It can be shot from your youngest children to you, including the wife and mother in law.

And it shoots buckshot also.
A 12 gauge pump if everyone can handle it. If some have trouble with the recoil then a 20 gauge is easier for the small statured to handle. For home defense don't get a long barrel and remove the magazine plug. And get everyone who might have to use it familiar with it and get them plenty of practice at the range with periodic refresher trips.

There is a reason why the "fowling piece" has been the go to gun for centuries, it can defend the home, put meat on the table, ride shotgun on the stage coach, repel boarders and sweep the trenches.
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Old September 26th, 2020, 11:33 PM #25
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An ongoing argument

has been going on over at The Firearms Blog.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...-home-defense/

There probably isn't one single right answer for this.

Except maybe an AR .410 shotgun.
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Old September 26th, 2020, 11:34 PM #26
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Originally Posted by grimnar15 View Post
I am going to get scorched for saying this, but, if you and your family do not train with a 12 Gauge shotgun, then it’s no good to you. It’s a big heavy weapon that packs a serious punch. The manual of arms requires a lot of muscle memory and under stress that can be a real disadvantage and even intimidating to the untrained.
Practice practice practice, as I said there are SEVERAL best first. I have a 44 Mag Ruger Redhawk in my nightstand. 12 ga 870 on the bedroom ready rack, 12 Ga SXS coach at back door, SKS at front door, Mod 70 06 at basement door and a 380 in my pocket. Is the SKS,06 and 380 a good first, probably not but I listed a couple that are ready. I probably have as good a chance of a rabid coyote trying to break in than any poor bastard in Maryland that might have a democrat looking for cash so ........... it is what it is.
All my kids have left the nest so it's just the two of us and I'm not worried about a empty chamber.
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Old September 26th, 2020, 11:37 PM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davsco View Post
not a fan of the shottie for HD. despite myth, you can somewhat easily miss with a shotgun, esp at closer ranges. just hit a 3 gun match and you'll see... next is, with a long barrel there is more out there for a bad guy to grab, and it's unwieldy going around corners etc. and of course the kick, esp for smaller statured folks. then of course, limited mag capacity and pretty hard to reload.

i actually think a pistol caliber carbine (pcc) in 9mm is an ideal HD firearm. you hold it with both hands and into your shoulder so it's pretty steady. not nearly as unwieldy as a shottie. almost no recoil. huge mag capacity.

that said, i have a bedside glock 31 for hd. small form factor.

but there's a reason PCC's are normally at the top of competitions, pretty easy to shoot fast & accurately. even folks with limited firearms experience can pick up a pcc and do pretty good with it.
I agree completely. 9mm PCC is the best. Low recoil. Easy to aim. Great magazine capacity. Should be easy for the entire family to master as opposed to a shotgun that most of the family won't want to shoot, short stroking is always a factor, follow-up shots are slow....
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Old September 26th, 2020, 11:50 PM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davsco View Post
not a fan of the shottie for HD. despite myth, you can somewhat easily miss with a shotgun, esp at closer ranges. just hit a 3 gun match and you'll see... next is, with a long barrel there is more out there for a bad guy to grab, and it's unwieldy going around corners etc. and of course the kick, esp for smaller statured folks. then of course, limited mag capacity and pretty hard to reload.

i actually think a pistol caliber carbine (pcc) in 9mm is an ideal HD firearm. you hold it with both hands and into your shoulder so it's pretty steady. not nearly as unwieldy as a shottie. almost no recoil. huge mag capacity.

that said, i have a bedside glock 31 for hd. small form factor.

but there's a reason PCC's are normally at the top of competitions, pretty easy to shoot fast & accurately. even folks with limited firearms experience can pick up a pcc and do pretty good with it.

I agree on the PCC as a superior all around option for a newer shooter, they are easy to learn without the recoil, size, and simplified reloading factors. My favorite is the Kel-Tec Sub2K in 9mm taking Glock mags interchangeable with my other defensive handguns of choice including the 33rd Glock manufactured sticks, but there are other great carbine options as well that Iím sure others will share.
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Old September 27th, 2020, 02:09 AM #29
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Originally Posted by blackdoggactual View Post
Is the 12 gauge pump shotgun the best firearm to recommend to a family for home protection?
I think a shotgun is a quite versatile tool/weapon. My first firearm was a shotgun, but they aren't for everyone. So, when you mean "family firearm" do you mean for you to protect your family, or one they will all be tasked with learning and using? My wife doesn't like my 12G, so, I bought her a 410 shotgun, and then a pistol, and a rifle. In my personal opinion, there isn't a perfect weapon for everyone. Right now is a difficult time to buy a gun and stock ammo unfortunately. As some have suggested, a pistol caliber carbine is a good choice. My daughter has no problem shooting a 9mm rifle, but now, finding the ammo could be tricky, or expensive. Same with 12G shells suitable for defense, or 5.56mm ammo for an AR15. But, my go to home defense combo is my 12G shotgun, which I could also swap barrels out with to use for other purposes.

I am also near New Windsor, welcome to the site.
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Old September 27th, 2020, 02:50 AM #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdoggactual View Post
Is the 12 gauge pump shotgun the best firearm to recommend to a family for home protection?
A 12 gauge pump-action is pretty much the go-to for home defense across the country. A shotgun is an incredibly versatile weapon for home defense, hunting, target shooting, trap & skeet, you name it. I own one for home defense, myself, and it was the second gun I ever bought.

However, it's no better than a club if you don't take it out and shoot it; particularly with pump-actions, you need to train yourself to work the action as you fire, while staying on target--Yes, you can miss; the gun store clerk who tells you it's impossible is lying.

Before you buy, I would recommend trying out a friend's or MDS Member's, or rent one at the range, just so you can feel the recoil for yourself; I'm a big guy, 6'1", and after 25 slugs, even my shoulder starts to hurt. So, I would suggest you try it first, see if you can handle the recoil; if you think it's a lot, consider any family member who might also need to use it.

Keep in mind, however, that slugs (which are all most ranges will let you shoot, unless you're shooting trap or skeet) have a high powder charge in order to project that 1 Oz of lead, so you'll be training at essentially the maximum recoil. You should also consider shell length; the typical length for 12 gauge is 2-3/4", but shells can range from 1-3/4" minishells all the way up to 3-1/2" magnum shells. If a 12 gauge is fine for you, but a little too much for a family member, try swapping to minishells; you get a slightly smaller payload, in exchange for less recoil and potentially more shots, depending on magazine size. I wouldn't recommend anything over 2-3/4", as price tends to increase with chamber size. You might also consider adding a slip-on recoil pad, but this will add to the length of the shotgun.

Maybe also consider a youth or bullpup model, as well, if you or anyone who might use it are of shorter stature. Youth models typically have inserts so you can adjust the length of pull (distance between the trigger and butt), so you could potentially find a good middle ground that works for everyone. Bullpups typically are more expensive when American-made, but work well for men and women alike. Kel-Tec offers the KSG and KS7 in 12 gauge, and Black Aces Tactical offers the Pro Series Bullpup in pump-action or semi-auto.

If 12's still too much, there's no shame in going with a 20 gauge instead; it's comparable in power and versatility, but with less punishing recoil. However, there's often less aftermarket parts available for 20s, compared to 12s; your best bet for a 20 would likely be a Mossberg or Remington, though the Stevens 320 is a reliable platform at budget prices, too.

Another middle ground would be a 16 gauge, but you'll likely have to find an older pump chambered in it; Tristar offers the semi-auto Viper G2 in 16 gauge, however. Again, though, that means less aftermarket options. The benefit to 16 is a slightly larger load than 20, and the ammo is fairly easy to find at prices comparable to 12 and 20, and is typically ignored in times of panic-buying.

I'm by no means an expert, but I hope this helps! Keep in mind, you're probably not gonna find a single gun that works for everyone, and you may decide to go a completely different route like a PCC, handgun, or AR instead. The key isn't the type or caliber, but what you're proficient, accurate, and effective with.
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