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Old October 19th, 2020, 08:52 AM #1
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AGC Action Shooters - Opinions Please

Here is an email we sent to our 3 Gun Shooters yesterday. Wanted to put it here to solicit from feedback from those who were not there yesterday. It is long winded, but so it everything that I write.


Thank you to everyone who made it out yesterday. We had perfect weather, some good fun, and nobody went home with more holes in them than they arrived with.

I want to offer a special Thank You to Austin Ceresi who spends hours before each match designing the courses of fire. This task has become especially challenging in recent months as this ammo shortage has started to affect a good number of our regular shooters.

In an effort to reduce round counts and still keep things fun, Austin has implemented some of these things, among others:

-Pistol or Shotgun Options
-Bonus opportunities with no penalties for not engaging
-Extra Challenging Shots - strong and/or week hand only
-limited engagement (1 round per target for long range rifle)

It is incredibly difficult to try and make everyone happy, and personally, I think he did a pretty good job of that yesterday.

We have gotten lots of verbal feedback, and as expected it is all over the board. Many who have plenty of ammo want to return to normal, pre panic round counts. On the other hand, those who have limited ammo appreciate the new philosophy. There is also those who have plenty of ammo, but realize that shooting at a piece of paper all alone is just not as much fun as action shooting matches with your friends.

Things are pretty uncertain right now and nobody really has any idea when (if) things will ever get back to normal. If the elections go the wrong way and the liberals clean house in November, then we could be looking at a very long term issue here. If it goes the other way, then we may still be looking at many months/years before things normalize (remember 2013?)

The only thing we know for certain is that we want to continue to hold monthly 3 Gun, IDPA, and Falling Steel matches. In MY opinion, returning things to normal round counts now would be short sided and could very well cause future match cancellations due to a lack of participation.

We would like to get your opinions and even better your ideas on what we should do. When offering feedback, please try to keep in mind that the ultimate goal is to continue having matches. Our attendance is already down 20% - 25% and if we lose another 20% - 25%, then it will no longer make sense to run matches EVERY month.

Thank you for your thoughts and we look forward to seeing everyone again in November.

Mike
AGC Action Shooting Chair
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Old October 19th, 2020, 10:53 AM #2
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Lower round count options seem prudent during these times. Now that summer is over maybe all the .22 jamming issues will lessen and perhaps there could be more courses designed for cheaper .22 plinking.
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Old October 19th, 2020, 10:59 AM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tungsten View Post
Lower round count options seem prudent during these times. Now that summer is over maybe all the .22 jamming issues will lessen and perhaps there could be more courses designed for cheaper .22 plinking.
I understand that IDPA will start having a rimfire division soon. Not sure if rimfire is feasible for Three gun or not. I suppose it will have to be if things get bad enough. Thank you for the feedback.
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Old October 19th, 2020, 11:48 AM #4
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I did my 1st Steel match two weeks ago, so my opinion is worth less than the average 2 cents. That being said, the bonus section seems to be the best of both worlds. Less required targets for those being ammo thrifty, and "bonus" targets for those who want more.

As a side note, since I am just coming into the sport, I did not have a pre-panic stash of ammo. Without the help of a good friend who reloads, I may have waited to get involved. His "sponsorship" and guidance got me to the firing line. Like my friend, everyone I have met has been patient and helpful. That attitude will keep me coming back. Thank you.
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Old October 19th, 2020, 12:12 PM #5
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Thanks to a rendevous with Ammo Jon many months ago, I remain well-stocked with ammo and will continue to attend IDPA as long as I don't have family schedule conflicts.
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Old October 19th, 2020, 12:16 PM #6
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Originally Posted by MEGARMS View Post
I understand that IDPA will start having a rimfire division soon. Not sure if rimfire is feasible for Three gun or not. I suppose it will have to be if things get bad enough. Thank you for the feedback.
There is a NFC (Not For Competition) division in IDPA... shouldn't be too hard. Not sure if PS lets you filter them by default out of the overalls or not.

3GN has rules for rimfires. I would argue that our[1] current setup actually makes it quite advantageous to run them; a 25yd zero is going to get you hits out to about 75, which is the limit of the bays more or less. You'd probably eat a big penalty on a 200yd stage, of course...

One other consideration is PCC divisions. Some people are short on 223, but still pretty good with 9mm. Again, they'd sort of get shafted on 200yd stages, but they would do alright on the bays.

[1] Do I get to say "our" now that I've been roped into coaching SASP?
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Old October 19th, 2020, 12:31 PM #7
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Originally Posted by erwos View Post
One other consideration is PCC divisions. Some people are short on 223, but still pretty good with 9mm. Again, they'd sort of get shafted on 200yd stages, but they would do alright on the bays.
This is an interesting topic. I found myself thinking, at the 3Gun in September ... how would I have faired using a PCC through this game? Other than the 200yd range, I'd have been in good shape.

Now, the next question: can I use a suppressor? Because if it's quieter, it feel less expensive when I'm shooting up ammo :-)
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Old October 19th, 2020, 01:14 PM #8
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This is an interesting topic. I found myself thinking, at the 3Gun in September ... how would I have faired using a PCC through this game? Other than the 200yd range, I'd have been in good shape.
I mean, you should have kicked ass and taken names, especially if it was PCC+shotgun+pistol. Even just PCC only isn't so hard if your zero is dialed in. This is, of course, why PCCs aren't allowed in the standard divisions.

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Now, the next question: can I use a suppressor? Because if it's quieter, it feel less expensive when I'm shooting up ammo :-)
You mean in general for carbines, or for PCC in particular? In general, not a huge deal, your average shot timer will pick up the shot if it's held a little closer, and it's only a problem on stages where you finish with a rifle.

Vis a vis PCC, it depends on how the division implemented. The PCC division in 3GN is literally 100% PCC, and shot timers tend to be wonky with suppressed PCCs, especially when loaded up with subs.
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Old October 19th, 2020, 01:22 PM #9
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I thought the way things were run on Sunday during the 3-Gun match was excellent. It was challenging, and I have no issue with the lower round count as long as it is kept interesting.

The match this Sunday was possibly the most fun I have had shooting an 3-Gun event so far.
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Old October 19th, 2020, 03:10 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Occam View Post
This is an interesting topic. I found myself thinking, at the 3Gun in September ... how would I have faired using a PCC through this game? Other than the 200yd range, I'd have been in good shape.

Now, the next question: can I use a suppressor? Because if it's quieter, it feel less expensive when I'm shooting up ammo :-)
You can run a suppressor. Timer picks it up just fine. Though, need to confirm the rules, once it's on it has to stay on during the match.
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