Concealed Carry Without A Permit

Kman · Dec 3, 2020

I've known several people who have carried without a permit sporadically for decades and have never had an issue/got caught.
They know they can't get MSP to deem them worthy and still want to protect themselves and families.
Consequences were weighed and decisions were made.

Blaster229 · Dec 3, 2020

willtill said:
Probably. IMHO If they REALLY want to search it, they'll search it. They'll manufacture up probable cause and go to town.

If I'm going to/from the range and get pulled over; and asked if I have any weapons, the reply will be in the affirmative; followed by the reason. No idea if that'll would defuse the LEO's further intentions to search my vehicle. It would go badly if I lied and they manufactured probable cause and went ahead with the search.

The pretext to a search does have a sort of "time limit". The longer one takes to bolster the pretext to a search, the less credibility that search has. You shouldn't be on the side of the road for a half hour before a search begins, PC or consent.

Typically the longer it goes, the more of a fishing expedition it becomes. Fish either bite quick or they don't at all.

Pinecone · Dec 3, 2020

Fox123 said:
Arizona is a constitutional carry state, he would not require a carry permit and firearms are allowed to be stored anywhere inside the vehicle.....

It would depend on when this alleged event occured.

They were not always constitutional carry.

LCPIWB · Dec 3, 2020

Bob A said:
I understand your position, but I can't see why I should even answer a question of "do I have a weapon" if I'm pulled over for a routine traffic stop. Rather than lie (if it was the case that I had one) it would be preferable to either deflect the question or refuse to answer.

I don't think that a routine traffic stop should be turned into a fishing trip, yet you seem to think that it's OK, unless I'm misreading the thrust of your post.

Could you clarify the circumstances wherein you feel that that question is appropriate?

(I should probably mention that I was asked this, one afternoon on my way to work, by an officer who pulled me over for rolling a stop sign. I was 68 years old at the time, and I couldn't understand what grounds he had to open that line of questioning).

"Officer I would be happy to answer any questions I am legally compelled to answer. (That is not one). Would you like to see my Driver's license?"

teratos · Dec 3, 2020

LCPIWB said:
"Officer I would be happy to answer any questions I am legally compelled to answer. (That is not one). Would you like to see my Driver's license?"

Why be that easy? Scream "I am a sovereign citizen!!!!" over and over and over at the top of your lungs. It always ends well.

JohnnyE · Dec 3, 2020

willtill said:
Probably. IMHO If they REALLY want to search it, they'll search it. They'll manufacture up probable cause and go to town.

If I'm going to/from the range and get pulled over; and asked if I have any weapons, the reply will be in the affirmative; followed by the reason. No idea if that'll would defuse the LEO's further intentions to search my vehicle. It would go badly if I lied and they manufactured probable cause and went ahead with the search.

I have a friend who has a Maryland concealed carry permit and he was carrying when he was stopped for a minor traffic violation.

The MoCo officer asked if he had a gun. He answered "yes" but before he could sing out that he had a permit, the officer drew his pistol, pointed it at my friend, and started shouting commands. It was a very intense situation for a minute or so.

I figure that rather than say "yes, I have a gun and a permit," it may be better to change the order around and instead say "officer, I have a permit for the gun I have."

Mark75H · Dec 3, 2020

I've never been asked? How often have you been stopped and asked if you were armed?

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Dec 3, 2020

Years ago a fellow officer was stopped for a violating in PG County and he wasn't carrying at the time. When the officer walked up he put his arms on the dash through the steering wheel to show he was no danger. When he was asked by the PG Officer whether he was carrying he said "No". The PG Officer replied..."If I was you I would."

[Kev308] · Dec 3, 2020

Mark75H said:
I've never been asked? How often have you been stopped and asked if you were armed?

You mean you've never been asked if you have ..."anything illegal in the car? Drugs, guns, bodies, or bazookas?"

I`ve heard that one so many times it's like the joke at the cash register. "What? No price tag? I guess that means it's free."
:sad20:

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Dec 3, 2020

[Kev308];6132129 said:
You mean you've never been asked if you have ..."anything illegal in the car? Drugs, guns, bodies, or bazookas?"

I`ve heard that one so many times it's like the joke at the cash register. "What? No price tag? I guess that means it's free."

I worked with an officer who was a sixth sense when someone on the road had an outstanding warrant...all he needed was a tag light out or similar to make the stop. He also never winced about asking the question or whether he could search their vehicle...it was amazing how many people had some kind of contraband in their cars.

randomuser · Dec 3, 2020

teratos said:
Why be that easy? Scream "I am a sovereign citizen!!!!" over and over and over at the top of your lungs. It always ends well.

That is usually screamed while the slightly cracked window is being broken and glass is flying, but after the conversation about flat earth.

BeoBill · Dec 3, 2020

[Kev308];6130721 said:
I was in PG late one night with a group of friends and the cop did the same thing but phrased it in a way that when I replied I basically gave consent while at the same time meaning no. He said, "great!" and started opening my door and I held it closed. It turned into a tug of war with my door and I kept repeating ," I do not give consent! I do not give consent!" Him and his partner put everyone on the curb and me in handcuffs and searched the car anyways. I`ve had a few incidents like this play out in my younger years. Now I just shut up and don't play the game.

Edit: I will add I got pulled over by an unmarked car that was sitting at a green light and I honked at it. Then sped around when he drove 15 mph in a 40 zone. Everything about it was dirty. Just baiting people looking for DUI's

That's PeeGee for you. Exactly.

Sid Hatfield · Dec 3, 2020

CodeWarrior1241 said:
From a few posts ago - is seeing that a Virginian with a carry permit is who you pulled over from their tags - considered probable cause in MD? Such that you don't need the driver's aquiescence of the search?

No that's not probable cause for a search. Just because you can lawfully carry in VA that doesn't mean that you're doing in in MD. And honestly, if I find out that you have a CCW, I'm probably not worrying much about you any more. Have a nice night and drive safe please.

Sid Hatfield · Dec 4, 2020

Bob A said:
I understand your position, but I can't see why I should even answer a question of "do I have a weapon" if I'm pulled over for a routine traffic stop. Rather than lie (if it was the case that I had one) it would be preferable to either deflect the question or refuse to answer.

I don't think that a routine traffic stop should be turned into a fishing trip, yet you seem to think that it's OK, unless I'm misreading the thrust of your post.

Could you clarify the circumstances wherein you feel that that question is appropriate?

I ask that question of almost everyone I contact. I just want to see how you answer it. There's several questions I'm probably going to ask you during that first minute and I'm just looking to see how you respond. I'll have a pretty good idea real shortly whether or not I need to dig a little further or just address the reason for the stop with either a warning (usually) or a citation and send you on your way. I'm looking for bad guys. If you're not one, we've both got better things to be doing. Thanks for your time and have a nice night. Drive safely please.

Sid Hatfield · Dec 4, 2020

willtill said:
Probably. IMHO If they REALLY want to search it, they'll search it. They'll manufacture up probable cause and go to town.

If I'm going to/from the range and get pulled over; and asked if I have any weapons, the reply will be in the affirmative; followed by the reason. No idea if that'll would defuse the LEO's further intentions to search my vehicle. It would go badly if I lied and they manufactured probable cause and went ahead with the search.

I don't make up probable cause for a search. Little thing called integrity. I've let plenty of cars roll away that I was pretty sure were dirty because I didn't have grounds for a search. It works like that sometimes. Constitution and all. And if you have a weapon in the car and a good reason--like to/from the range and stored reasonably legally-- I don't have a problem with that as long as you're not doing criminal stuff with it. Again, that's just me though.

Sid Hatfield · Dec 4, 2020

Blaster229 said:
So, what was your PC to search this vehicle? Someone answering "no" to a question isn't.

He was going to jail for something else. Don't remember what for but it wasn't serious. I found it doing an inventory search prior to towing his car. That happens a fair bit.

Blaster229 said:
"Respect your authority". How long have you been a cop? No one respects any cop who says he has AUTHORITY.

Write the fvcking citation and be on with it. Why do you have to "Size up the driver" on every stop, unless you are in some thug ridden area and that's what you do. You know who to try to "size up" and who not to.

No one is obligated to answer your drug or gun question.

Been one for a long time. Thanks for asking. Pretty good at it too. And I hate to break it to you but we have authority vested in us by the legislature to carry out our duties and that includes contacting you for any lawful reason. Why do I size the driver up? It's called police work and good police work goes well beyond just handing out tickets. If you're doing other criminal stuff, it's my job to try to figure that out during our contact if I can. And since I like going home in the morning, I also need to make sure that you're not a threat to me. They don't pay me to walk around you with blinders on or ignore anything other than the violation I stopped you for. And no one ever said you have to answer any questions I ask. But normal people give open, honest answers and the ones who don't are usually worthy of a bit more scrutiny.

Sid Hatfield · Dec 4, 2020

[Kev308];6132129 said:
You mean you've never been asked if you have ..."anything illegal in the car? Drugs, guns, bodies, or bazookas?"

Exactly. And it works. Most people with nothing to hide just laugh that off, but you'd be surprised by the number of people who suddenly freeze up or get panicky. THAT'S the person I want to talk to a little more.

Blaster229 · Dec 4, 2020

Sid Hatfield said:
He was going to jail for something else. Don't remember what for but it wasn't serious. I found it doing an inventory search prior to towing his car. That happens a fair bit.

Been one for a long time. Thanks for asking. Pretty good at it too. And I hate to break it to you but we have authority vested in us by the legislature to carry out our duties and that includes contacting you for any lawful reason. Why do I size the driver up? It's called police work and good police work goes well beyond just handing out tickets. If you're doing other criminal stuff, it's my job to try to figure that out during our contact if I can. And since I like going home in the morning, I also need to make sure that you're not a threat to me. They don't pay me to walk around you with blinders on or ignore anything other than the violation I stopped you for. And no one ever said you have to answer any questions I ask. But normal people give open, honest answers and the ones who don't are usually worthy of a bit more scrutiny.

I used to "size everyone up" on every stop. Until I learned that wasn't necessary.

Sid Hatfield · Dec 4, 2020

Blaster229 said:
I used to "size everyone up" on every stop. Until I learned that wasn't necessary.

So you taught yourself to walk around in Condition White all day. I'm sorry to hear that. The last time I walked up on a car without assessing both people in it back in 2004, all three of us wound up in the hospital. I learned the hard way to pay attention to who I'm dealing with. But I guess you've been lucky. Good for you.

Blaster229 · Dec 4, 2020

Sid Hatfield said:
So you taught yourself to walk around in Condition White all day. I'm sorry to hear that. The last time I walked up on a car without assessing both people in it back in 2004, all three of us wound up in the hospital. I learned the hard way to pay attention to who I'm dealing with. But I guess you've been lucky. Good for you.

Asking someone if they have guns or drugs and trying to get a consent search has NOTHING to do with situational awareness levels. Seeing how many people occupy a car isn't "sizing a person up".
I can't wait for the day a cop like you pulls me over and wants to try and get a consent search.
You'll get an education for sure.

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