Issues with 9mm and CFE pistol

DENWA · Dec 28, 2020

SO I'm trying to build some range rounds for the G19 and G34 but I'm having issues.

The loads ARE all same WCC 97 Brass and WSP primers

1. 3.9gr Hogdon CFE pistol with 147gr BLUE bullets at 1.150" OAL

2. 4.8gr Hogdon CFE pistol with 115gr FMJ bullets at 1.140" OAL

Both Loads have way too many stove pipes.

115gr 40-50% in the G19, 100% never ejected from the G34 and I had to rack the slide every time to eject the empty case

The 147gr shot OK in the G19 with 25% stovepipes and the G34 was still like 75%

All the cases that did eject literally fell right in front of me or down on my shoes.

Are these loads too light? they are middle of road from the Hodgdon website.

FYI-- the G19 has ~600rnds through it and the G34 has 100. Both shoot very well with factory 124 Winchester "NATO". Neither like the steel case crap at all.

davsco · Dec 28, 2020

did you case gauge them and/or plunk them in your chamber(s)?

DENWA · Dec 28, 2020

By plunk i think you mean fall freely in the barrel and yes they both did fine on a spare G19 barrel I have on my bench.

The 115gr looked completely normal and the 147 Blue bullets has a slightly visible bulge where you can see the base of the bullet.

they all micro metered at .355"

Flametamer · Dec 28, 2020

I'd guess you are too light. I run 124 gr RN X-Treme pills behind 4.6 gr. of CFE Pistol. Yields ±1000 fpm from G17 and LC9. Also ran well in a few G19s that I don't own. No problems ejecting.

Test and see what works for you....

Kirkster · Dec 28, 2020

Sounds pretty light. Hodgdon usually is very conservative I never get close to their velocities out of similar barrels. You need to run them past a chrono...

GuitarmanNick · Dec 28, 2020

I would think they are too light. The G34 slide is heavier and requires a little more power than the G19 to cycle properly. If there is nothing wrong with the gun and the rounds pass the plunk test, increase the charge until you find the point that the G34 cycles reliably. You will then have a round that will cycle both pistols.

In the loading I have done for semi-auto pistols, usually a charge closer to the maximum has proven to be more reliable. I have not used CFE Pistol and can be of no help on a specific charge.

NATO ammo is usually a little hotter than standard factory ammo. I have tried to duplicate it with my hand loads.

A Lee factory crimp die will reduce the bullet bulge you see in your loads. It sizes the round as it is used to insure every round will chamber. The bulging you see is not usually a problem, but a good gauge is helpful and more reliable than dropping into a spare barrel which will often miss issues with the case rim.

Coated lead bullets are usually loaded much lighter than FMJs. Be careful not to exceed the maximum charge trying to get the G34 to cycle with them.

ST19AG_WGreymon · Dec 28, 2020

I am at 5.2gn with CFE Pistol behind a 124gn Xtreme/Berrys plated bullet. The blackened/sooty cases are indicative of a light charge.

lazarus · Dec 28, 2020

Sounds a little light. Factory guns? Or 80s?

Lead generally develops higher velocities, but I started working up my 147gr XTP load at 3.9gr (920fps) and worked up to 4.3gr (980fps).

Functioned flawlessly for all rounds.

I’d guess loaded too light for you. Certainly won’t hurt to add a couple tenths of a grain and see what it gets you.

I AM loading mine much shorter as my 17 has a short throat. So mine are loaded to 1.095”. Keeping in mind XTP are going to be a little shorter COAL for the same case setback/fill that is still generating slightly higher pressures and velocity than Hornady’s recommended 1.120” (that is off memory, check that COAL before using it as Hornady’s recommended COAL)

outrider58 · Dec 28, 2020

Your loads seem to be on the low side of recommended for both bullet weights. What's more is, both reloads seem a bit longer than recommended COALs.

I would recommend (if you haven't already) swapping out the ejector and extractor for a 30274 ejector and a Lone Wolf stainless extractor...

https://www.glockstore.com/Gen-5-Glock-OEM-Trigger-Housing

https://www.lonewolfdist.com/PRODUCT/921655/aw-extractor/

Melnic · Dec 28, 2020

2 things that are part of my handgun evaluation for reloaded rounds are:
1) chronograph it
2) 10-20 single load rounds to verify cycle and last round hold open. Yes, load 1 round into magazine and make sure EVERY round will hold open after shooting

FYI: Check the blue website, some of these special coated bullets may say to use Lead bullet load data if they don't have their own.

Outrider has a great point about the ejector, if you do enough reading you will see how they evolved the Ejector and if your getting parts kits, you may have the older smaller tip one on yours.
My Gen 3 Factory G17 never had an ejector problem but it sure does "trickle" once and a while. The G34 Poly 80 did the same thing till I changed Ejector in it. Light loads may be the problem here but the Ejector can allow it to be more tolerant/reliable anyway

DENWA · Dec 28, 2020

Just got back from the range.

Problem solved.

Moved the 115gr up to 5.5gr of CFE at 1.14 OAL and it shoots very nicely and accurate!

Made a mistake on the 147gr loads and they were loaded to 4.8gr (Instead of 4.3 because of that damn LYMAN digital scale!) at 1.14 OAL and were a BIT on the warm side.

With out dragging the chrono I don't know how hot but i did notice the recoil was along the lines of my 45Auto.

Only issues I had were my fat hand pushing up the slide stop.

Thanks for all the feedback and info. Probably gonna load a bunch of the 115gr now and try to break in the G34

lazarus · Dec 28, 2020

DENWA said:
Just got back from the range.

Problem solved.

Moved the 115gr up to 5.5gr of CFE at 1.14 OAL and it shoots very nicely and accurate!

Made a mistake on the 147gr loads and they were loaded to 4.8gr (Instead of 4.3 because of that damn LYMAN digital scale!) at 1.14 OAL and were a BIT on the warm side.

With out dragging the chrono I don't know how hot but i did notice the recoil was along the lines of my 45Auto.

Only issues I had were my fat hand pushing up the slide stop.

Thanks for all the feedback and info. Probably gonna load a bunch of the 115gr now and try to break in the G34

That’s +p territory on the 147s

I agree on the ejector. The gen 3 I had was pretty sharp and resulted in a few stove pipes and a number of cases to the face. Swapped a gen 4 in and it dropped then neatly 2-5ft to my side every time. That was with factory Ammo and the first few hundred rounds before I swapped the ejector.

It’s also possible to have the slide velocity TOO high causing issues (both stove pipes and others. Winchester ranger T 147gr P+ caused about 1:3 failures to return to battery. I think it was the frame flexing too much and soaking up recoil energy. Possibly. Swapped to a 18# spring and lone Wolf SS rod and its run 100% for the further 80-90 rounds I’ve tried in my 17).

lazarus · Dec 28, 2020

If that BLUE bullet is a RN, Hornady says 4.3gr at 1.165” COAL, but that is FMJ. 950fps...

Speer says 4.6gr 1.13” COAL, but that is with a flat point TMJ (long ogive still, that’s probably the equivalent to a RN at ~1.16”). That’s 980fps.

Lead is generally .2gr or so less for the same velocity...

So I’d guess that was cranking along well over 1000fps. SWAG at .2gr over speer’s max load, probably slightly shorter equivalent COAL AND lead, probably +p or maybe +p+ pressures and 1050fps give or take 20fps. At least CFE pistol is more of a medium speed pistol powder, not a fast powder or you certainly would be at way over SAMMI max overloading it like that.

At least you weren’t going for max and messed up by half a grain...

Issues with 9mm and CFE pistol

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