Guns Destroyed, Recourse?

GASSMAN · Mar 10, 2020

There are two sides to every story. Attorney not willing to take on the case, thats odd. Maybe there is no case. Not saying anyone is lying, but, I am betting your friend took a guilty plea to a domestic assault in there somewhere making him a prohibited person, maybe without realising it. At that point he can't pick them up and they have to be destroyed. I am all about him getting an attorney to at least look into it, but I assure you they cross there T's and dot there I's more than you think.

"Destroyed"... right.

MY bet is that they're in the possession of one of AA County's finest.

Report them as stolen to the BATF.

@ halfcocked How much you willing to bet?? Just want to see if its worth my time, cause I will take on that bet...

Squaregrouper · Mar 10, 2020

Me thinks there is more to this story than the OP knows about.

inkd · Mar 10, 2020

I'd like to hear the lawyers version of what happened and what reasons he decided to not take the case.

Being there are two sides to every story.

Skipjacks · Mar 10, 2020

squaregrouper said:
Me thinks there is more to this story than the OP knows about.

Can't be.

I heard the OP's side on the internet.

The internet wouldn't fail to give me all applicable details. And if it did Mark Zuckerberg would pop up and tell me this was fake news!

Sundazes · Mar 10, 2020

Skipjacks said:
Can't be.

I heard the OP's side on the internet.

The internet wouldn't fail to give me all applicable details. And if it did Mark Zuckerberg would pop up and tell me this was fake news!

Bon Jour

Docster · Mar 10, 2020

Name Taken;5809627[B said:
]Have him speak with an attorney before making any further phone calls[/B]. It wouldn't hurt to ask for some sort of documentation and ask to speak to the Officers supervisor just to confirm they are in fact destroyed. Wouldn't be the first time an officer didn't understand the process or misspoke about a case.

He also needs to determine if part of his criminal case disposition wasn't the forfeit of the firearms.

I'd find it hard to believe in 2020 there isn't a paper trial before property gets destroyed.

^^THIS. Why do folks continually NOT go here first for legal advice???

delaware_export · Mar 10, 2020

IMHO, it sounds like part of post 9 is the issue. .gov knows that fighting .gov isn’t cheap. And they ain’t gonna make it easy.

As post 9 noted, the person in question sounds like there are no funds there, making the biggest issue.

And let’s face it, unless you are a lawyer or have free/very low cost access to one, fighting for confiscated guns is an very expensive matter of principle.

The principle (being right) + value of guns vs the cost to go on the offensive... to MAYBE win.

How much are the guns worth?

Any of the legal folks wanna guesstimate the cost of this fight? Offer pro bono? To make a point?

MykR0k · Mar 10, 2020

This won’t help your friend financially but if this story is factual, I’d expose it big time. The best way to do that is a friendly 2A reporter/journalist and AWR Hawkins is your man!

AWR Hawkins if a writer for Breitbart, Ammoland News and has done a ton on radio and other forums. He’s pro 2A and would probably love a story such as this. I’d write to him with the information and make sure it’s very clean and totally factual, no fluff and no BS. I’m sure Hawkins would consider writing an article about the pitfalls of Red Flag Laws and use your friend’s situation as a case study.

The best way to reach him is his email awr@awrhawkins.com.

You can try his LinkedIn if you have an account but he’s not on it much, https://www.linkedin.com/in/awr-hawkins-b4b62233/

While you’re at it, mention Maryland Shooters in case he doesn’t know about it.

Steel Hunter · Mar 10, 2020

Docster said:
^^THIS. Why do folks continually NOT go here first for legal advice???

Same reason people buy stuff, ask if it's any good, then wonder why people tell them they are stupid when it's not a good buy.

lazarus · Mar 10, 2020

GASSMAN said:
There are two sides to every story. Attorney not willing to take on the case, thats odd. Maybe there is no case. Not saying anyone is lying, but, I am betting your friend took a guilty plea to a domestic assault in there somewhere making him a prohibited person, maybe without realising it. At that point he can't pick them up and they have to be destroyed. I am all about him getting an attorney to at least look into it, but I assure you they cross there T's and dot there I's more than you think.

"Destroyed"... right.

MY bet is that they're in the possession of one of AA County's finest.

Report them as stolen to the BATF.

@ halfcocked How much you willing to bet?? Just want to see if its worth my time, cause I will take on that bet...

Even if he became prohibited it is still legally his property. He can absolutely have someone who is not prohibited take possession. He could have an FFL pawn them for him, etc.

Just because you cannot possess certain property doesn’t not make you lose ownership of it. Only way it could have been legally destroyed is if he forfeited it as part of the court agreement.

sxs · Mar 10, 2020

lazarus said:
Even if he became prohibited it is still legally his property. He can absolutely have someone who is not prohibited take possession. He could have an FFL pawn them for him, etc.

Just because you cannot possess certain property doesn’t not make you lose ownership of it. Only way it could have been legally destroyed is if he forfeited it as part of the court agreement.

This!
I work for Scott's Gunsmithing. Several prohibited owners have had AA County Police transfer their firearms for disposition by consignment sales.

GuitarmanNick · Mar 11, 2020

I looked over the paperwork that he has and see nothing to indicate he is now prohibited. He was prohibited during the probationary period but was told that he could request his property be returned when it was completed. He never received any notifications that his property was to be disposed of, either.

Apparently, lawyers are like doctors, now. They each have a specialty and if your problem falls outside of their comfort zone, you are better off finding another attorney. I am finding some that specialize in fighting state property seizures. In looking at the list, there were 9 guns, cases, holsters, and a little ammunition taken. Not sure their actual value is worth the cost or headaches for a lawsuit, but definitely worth finding out if he was lied to by the AA police about them being destroyed. Seems to me that there should be some detailed documentation provided upon request.

Doctor_M · Mar 11, 2020

Interesting on why they confiscated non-firearms or ammunition items like cases and holsters. There is absolutely no law against anyone keeping accessories (outside of ammo) as far as I'm aware. Is there something in the law that would allow them to confiscate magazines, optics, etc. I don't even know how much I have tied up in just accessories, but I would bet it is over 10K.

Doctor_M · Mar 11, 2020

Heck... if they come for my stuff, I'm not planning on even giving them the cardboard ammo boxes. They can carry 30K+ rounds out in their pockets if they want.

K31 · Mar 11, 2020

Doctor_M said:
Interesting on why they confiscated non-firearms or ammunition items like cases and holsters. There is absolutely no law against anyone keeping accessories (outside of ammo) as far as I'm aware. Is there something in the law that would allow them to confiscate magazines, optics, etc. I don't even know how much I have tied up in just accessories, but I would bet it is over 10K.

You may want to hope they take your cases/holsters. While less than ideal for storage they beat the alternative. By that I mean your collection of un-fired cylinder un-turned revolvers being left in a pile on a concrete floor.

metalman3006 · Mar 11, 2020

Shame, someone I know was arrested and eventually convicted and the Caroline county sheriffs Dept. were extremely helpful in getting his guns to a FFL so he could transfer/sell them.

whistlersmother · Mar 11, 2020

Doctor_M said:
Heck... if they come for my stuff, I'm not planning on even giving them the cardboard ammo boxes. They can carry 30K+ rounds out in their pockets if they want.

Hmmm... I was considering several hundred pounds of pure lead in ammo boxes.

Then complain about hazard substance storage in police property lockers...

spoon059 · Mar 11, 2020

squaregrouper said:
Me thinks there is more to this story than the OP knows about.

What...? You mean that just cause a third party posted it on the internet its not entirely true? Well, I'm shocked...

GuitarmanNick · Mar 12, 2020

Yesterday, he went to the courthouse and got copies of everything in his case file. No forfeiture order was found. No order of destruction was found.

From there, back to the AA county police station to speak with the property room supervisor, then his supervisor, etc... Bounced from office to office and building to building and was told that the only way he would ever see any paperwork was to sue at which time it would be provided in discovery, if it ever existed.

Seems to me that if things were done in compliance with the laws, they would be willing to show related paperwork to the affected person. The treatment he received was not at all helpful and some people may not have remained as composed. I usually give law enforcement the benefit of the doubt, but this behavior is highly suspicious in my mind.

He is looking for an attorney to help him get some answers and compensation.

Doctor_M · Mar 12, 2020

If you start a GoFundMe page for him, I will make a donation to his legal costs.

Guns Destroyed, Recourse?

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