Why do I need a suppressor?

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  • lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    I posted this before —- but try witt machine SME — it’s impressive - I love mine for HD — projects the concussion, crack and gasses towards the enemy.

    When using a 5.56 rifle for home defense you’ll be dealing with deafening sounds and blinding flashes in confined spaces. A suppressor mitigates the effects of both keeping you in the fight at peak performance.

    An excellent alternative (one I can personally vouch for) is the Witt Machine SME- Sound Mitigation Equipment , a non class iii sound / flash suppression device.

    https://www.wittmachine.net/sme-soun...ine-non-class/

    https://youtu.be/mdUIvTmvzww

    -
    __________________

    Shoot it in an actual confined space and it is not really any quieter for the shooter. Something like this, blast forwarded or linear comp directs the blast and some of the sound forward. In an enclosed room, it is just going to echo back. The effect is going to be minor at best for the shooter.

    Even not in an enclosed space you might see 2-5dB of reduction at the shooters ear. That’s a heck of a lot better than nothing for sure.

    But even a crappy suppressor is going to knock the sound back about 20+ dB.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Realize, that it will be 130 dBA suppressed, outdoors in free air. Add a wall, and you double the sound pressure. So up to 135. At another right angle wall, and you double again. So up to 140. Add a roof .......

    All those surfaces reflect, so even suppressed, you are getting back up to ear hurting noise levels.

    BTW, I am looking at suppressed rifle, not handgun.

    And how hard is it to put on ear pro and turn it on?
     

    Oh3

    Member
    Jan 2, 2016
    90
    Carroll Co
    Realize, that it will be 130 dBA suppressed, outdoors in free air. Add a wall, and you double the sound pressure. So up to 135. At another right angle wall, and you double again. So up to 140. Add a roof .......

    All those surfaces reflect, so even suppressed, you are getting back up to ear hurting noise levels.

    BTW, I am looking at suppressed rifle, not handgun.

    And how hard is it to put on ear pro and turn it on?

    Depends on how much time you have to get to your firearm and put on ear pro when your door is kicked in. Ever put ear pro on with one hand? Ever do it under stress? I’d rather be deaf than dead. I have electronic ear pro but I don’t sense direction or depth of sound as well as my naked ear.
     

    spoon059

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 1, 2018
    5,334
    Realize, that it will be 130 dBA suppressed, outdoors in free air. Add a wall, and you double the sound pressure. So up to 135. At another right angle wall, and you double again. So up to 140. Add a roof .......

    All those surfaces reflect, so even suppressed, you are getting back up to ear hurting noise levels.

    BTW, I am looking at suppressed rifle, not handgun.

    And how hard is it to put on ear pro and turn it on?
    Just curious... any tactical training? How long does it take you, from a deep sleep, to locate and deploy ears, turn them on, verify they are properly seated in your ears, retrieve your firearm, aim and squeeze your first round off?

    Your arrogance and "one size fits all" approach is astounding. What gun are you referring to with your noise levels? When was the last time you heard a suppressed subsonic .300AAC round? I don't remember the exact sound level, but my friend has one with a titanium suppressor that's around 120 db. I have a .22 AR pistol with a stainless steel suppressor that's about 118 db.

    That's significantly lower than your broad assumptions.

    Either way, you do you... but being pompous and arrogant is just obnoxious.

    Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Realize, that it will be 130 dBA suppressed, outdoors in free air. Add a wall, and you double the sound pressure. So up to 135. At another right angle wall, and you double again. So up to 140. Add a roof .......

    All those surfaces reflect, so even suppressed, you are getting back up to ear hurting noise levels.

    BTW, I am looking at suppressed rifle, not handgun.

    And how hard is it to put on ear pro and turn it on?

    Probably about 10-15 seconds from a dead sleep. I keep in ear electronic plugs in my handgun vault. But it’s get the handgun out first, slip on the armor under the bed, then ear plugs if there is still time.

    As to the effect of a suppressor. Yes. A suppressor isn’t to prevent any hearing damage. It is to minimize it, increase situational awareness and reduce blindness and distraction from muzzle blast.

    Pop a couple rounds suppressed in a hallway and you’ll probably do some damage. You likely won’t be left with ringing ears or a burst ear drum.

    Ear pro only does so much to muffle the sounds hitting your ear drums.

    Add in some walls and your 162-165dB rifle turns in to 167+. Opposite wall and ceilings a few more dB

    Your 30dB reduction ear pro still isn’t hearing safe unless you’ve doubled up...

    But I am sure there is time to do both.

    In an ideal world I’d have electronic ear prop on, a suppressor, ESAPI torso armor, Level III helmet with bullet proof visor, abdominal and groin protectors, a fully auto drum feed Saiga, riot shield and a delta force team out in front.
     

    Dogabutila

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 21, 2010
    2,359
    Once the shooting starts, are you really needing to communicate all that much other than "stay the F down and stay where you are"? I don't think I'm sending the wife and 4 yr old on a flanking maneuver.

    You don't think its important to be able to talk to your family after the shooting ends?

    End of the day suppressors are a benefit. If you dont think so then don't get one. I dont really care what you think because it doesn't affect me or mine. And if you want to make suboptimal choices that only impact yours it doesn't bother me.
     
    Last edited:

    czman

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Nov 20, 2020
    97
    I keep a suppressor on my nightstand firearm so that if I have to use it to take out an intruder, my wife and I will still have the ability to hear after the shooting.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Depends on how much time you have to get to your firearm and put on ear pro when your door is kicked in. Ever put ear pro on with one hand? Ever do it under stress? I’d rather be deaf than dead. I have electronic ear pro but I don’t sense direction or depth of sound as well as my naked ear.

    That is why you grab firearm first.

    If you need to shoot before you get ear pro on, do it.

    But if you have a few more seconds, you will be better off with ear pro.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Just curious... any tactical training? How long does it take you, from a deep sleep, to locate and deploy ears, turn them on, verify they are properly seated in your ears, retrieve your firearm, aim and squeeze your first round off?

    Your arrogance and "one size fits all" approach is astounding. What gun are you referring to with your noise levels? When was the last time you heard a suppressed subsonic .300AAC round? I don't remember the exact sound level, but my friend has one with a titanium suppressor that's around 120 db. I have a .22 AR pistol with a stainless steel suppressor that's about 118 db.

    That's significantly lower than your broad assumptions.

    Either way, you do you... but being pompous and arrogant is just obnoxious.

    I am not saying one size fits all. Just saying, that even a suppressor, ear pro indoors it a good idea.

    120 dBA outdoors is around 140 dBA in an enclosed room.

    I have NEVER said to deal with your ear pro before being ready to fight.

    Be ready to fire, THEN, if you have time, deal with ear pro.
     

    Oh3

    Member
    Jan 2, 2016
    90
    Carroll Co
    3d4hdk.png
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    Realize, that it will be 130 dBA suppressed, outdoors in free air. Add a wall, and you double the sound pressure. So up to 135. At another right angle wall, and you double again. So up to 140. Add a roof .......

    All those surfaces reflect, so even suppressed, you are getting back up to ear hurting noise levels.

    BTW, I am looking at suppressed rifle, not handgun.

    And how hard is it to put on ear pro and turn it on?
    Not how superposition con/de-structive interference works with sound. If it doubled with every reflection, and didn't reduce when dissipating, your ear pro wouldn't keep you from going deaf either. The pressure dissipates as it travels, reflects etc, if 2 waves collide, depending on the exact position of the waves they can increase or decrease, it has to be perfectin this case with 2 waves colliding at the perfect spot to double pressure through constructive interference, and only in a small spot. Pretty much not going to happen in a room with random distances, angles, and materials. It's also a pretty bad ass suppressor to quiet a rifle down to 130dB unless 300BO subs. an AR in 5.56 with a decent can will probably end up rating around 135-140dB around the muzzle and ejection port. This is on the edge of hearing safe, it can spread, but won't likely reflect off of carpets and drywall any more intense than that. Far different than shooting in the concrete box that is most indoor ranges with nearly 170dB flying out of the muzzle, or directed back from a brake. Ear pro is rated in dB suppression too, a good set might be 25dB, meaning that 165-170dB muzzle blast hits the cup maybe at 160dB, and a barely hearing safe 135dB at the ear. A 140dB blast from the port, and muzzle might give the same 135db by the time it hits your uncovered ear. I'm firmly in the "plan to fight with the gun, and only what's on/in it" camp. So a suppressor is ideal IMO, but there can be potential legal issues if you have a can registered individual, and the wife has to use that rifle when I'm not home, so a flash can(basically the non-NFA adapter/blast chamber my suppresssor) is a decent compromise. Still probably less potential hearing damage than using a CCW pistol, where walking around in public with ear-pro or a can is nowhere near practical.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,813
    I am not saying one size fits all. Just saying, that even a suppressor, ear pro indoors it a good idea.

    120 dBA outdoors is around 140 dBA in an enclosed room.

    I have NEVER said to deal with your ear pro before being ready to fight.

    Be ready to fire, THEN, if you have time, deal with ear pro.

    At what point does your family don their hearing pro?
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Not how superposition con/de-structive interference works with sound. If it doubled with every reflection, and didn't reduce when dissipating, your ear pro wouldn't keep you from going deaf either. The pressure dissipates as it travels, reflects etc, if 2 waves collide, depending on the exact position of the waves they can increase or decrease, it has to be perfectin this case with 2 waves colliding at the perfect spot to double pressure through constructive interference, and only in a small spot. Pretty much not going to happen in a room with random distances, angles, and materials. It's also a pretty bad ass suppressor to quiet a rifle down to 130dB unless 300BO subs. an AR in 5.56 with a decent can will probably end up rating around 135-140dB around the muzzle and ejection port. This is on the edge of hearing safe, it can spread, but won't likely reflect off of carpets and drywall any more intense than that. Far different than shooting in the concrete box that is most indoor ranges with nearly 170dB flying out of the muzzle, or directed back from a brake. Ear pro is rated in dB suppression too, a good set might be 25dB, meaning that 165-170dB muzzle blast hits the cup maybe at 160dB, and a barely hearing safe 135dB at the ear. A 140dB blast from the port, and muzzle might give the same 135db by the time it hits your uncovered ear. I'm firmly in the "plan to fight with the gun, and only what's on/in it" camp. So a suppressor is ideal IMO, but there can be potential legal issues if you have a can registered individual, and the wife has to use that rifle when I'm not home, so a flash can(basically the non-NFA adapter/blast chamber my suppresssor) is a decent compromise. Still probably less potential hearing damage than using a CCW pistol, where walking around in public with ear-pro or a can is nowhere near practical.

    Inverse square dissipation depends on the area expanding.

    In free space, the sound expands in a sphere, and the area the sound pressure is over it expanding.

    If there is a floor, that sound pressure is only expanding in a hemisphere. So the less dissipation over distance.

    Add a wall, and you have 1/4 of a sphere. etc.

    In a fully enclosed room, that sound pressure is reflecting from most every surface. The only dissipation is from absorption, like into the carpet and soft surfaces.

    Yes, ear pro is limited in its protection. The same with a suppressor.

    Both is even better.

    Subsonic, suppressed, and ear pro is as good as you can get.

    Another advantage of electronic ear pro is that it can actually amplify sounds, making it easier to hear things going on.

    As for family, yes, it would be a good idea for them to have ear pro available.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    Inverse square dissipation depends on the area expanding.

    In free space, the sound expands in a sphere, and the area the sound pressure is over it expanding.

    If there is a floor, that sound pressure is only expanding in a hemisphere. So the less dissipation over distance.

    Add a wall, and you have 1/4 of a sphere. etc.

    In a fully enclosed room, that sound pressure is reflecting from most every surface. The only dissipation is from absorption, like into the carpet and soft surfaces.

    Yes, ear pro is limited in its protection. The same with a suppressor.

    Both is even better.

    Subsonic, suppressed, and ear pro is as good as you can get.

    Another advantage of electronic ear pro is that it can actually amplify sounds, making it easier to hear things going on.

    As for family, yes, it would be a good idea for them to have ear pro available.
    I have developed 2 abilities when suddenly awaken in the middle of the night, 1. with a glance, I can instantly calculate how much time I have remaining to sleep, or hit the snooze button. 2. I can grab my bedside rifle, and use it. That's it, anything else I'm a moron till coffee. Chances of putting on ear pro correctly, and turning it on, pretty much 0, compared to the certainty of an accessible suppressor equipped firearm. Chances of finding a flashlight or loaded mag NOT attached to the rifle aren't great either. If the sudden need arises, picking up all I need in one object as quickly and simply as possible is far better. Same with carrying daily, I don't plan on slipping on ear-pro as a threat approaches, or wear it everywhere, simply to draw and fire my deafeningly loud compact pistol.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Then you need to train yourself to FIRST put on your ear pro. THEN hit the snooze button. :D
     

    Slowhand

    Pre-Banned
    Dec 13, 2011
    1,869
    In a van, down by the river.
    Inverse square dissipation depends on the area expanding.

    In free space, the sound expands in a sphere, and the area the sound pressure is over it expanding.

    If there is a floor, that sound pressure is only expanding in a hemisphere. So the less dissipation over distance.

    [...]

    I would argue you always have the ground which is also a "floor", so are you shooting in a hemisphere when in the open?
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    I would argue you always have the ground which is also a "floor", so are you shooting in a hemisphere when in the open?

    Hmm, not every sound is produced at ground level.

    But yes, for surface or near surface sources, you are correct, the measures SPL would be double the free space.

    So you would get the affect of the 4 walls and ceiling.
     

    AssMan

    Meh...
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 27, 2011
    16,211
    Somewhere on the James River, VA
    Alright MDS, why do I need a suppressor for a 5.56 home defense rifle?

    Convince me.

    I have read every online article about the subject. Most boil down to "Because they are amazeballs and you can stick it to the ATF by paying them to approve you to have one!"

    I value the real world opinions of MDS over the opinions of bloggers who desperately need content for their websites.

    What does a suppressor add to my life?

    1) Reduced recoil.
    2) Reduced muzzle flash (particularly important at night).
    3) Reduced noise (particularly important if firing indoors without hearing pro).

    Three very good reasons IMO.
     

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