Winchester 1897 experts

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  • Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    Folks, trying to get a sense of value of this Winchester mod 1897 40xxx gun, built in 1898. Seems very nice shape. History is had been in an eastern shore family’s hands ( family i know) grandfather, father, son ( in his 60s) and needed to raise some cash about 10 years ago. People sometimes ask me to take or buy their guns and it may be time to rid of some. Any sense of value if this was to be offered locally as opposed to thru GI, or another site? What appears to be a ring around a couple of screws is oil. I occasionally clean these old guns and just sprayed it down. 30 “ barrel.
     

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    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    Is the barrel full length or cut down? Not sure of value but it looks really nice

    I should have mentioned as i measured it for this purpose. It is 30”. I think that was std for a standard model, which this one is. The wood is hardly fancy, but it is straighrt grain and very good looking as u can see.
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    Looks like a nice gun I would probably keep it.
    I don't usually see a lot of solid frame guns around in good shape when I look at them on the web.
    FWIW my 1897 will chamber and fire 2 and 3/4 shells no problem but the forcing cone is a little tight. (12 ga.)
    With a chamber gauge it measures around 2 5/8. It's from around 1904 or 14 I seem to think.
    I have also read in a book by Ackley that the 1897 action is strong enough that it could handle CF cartridges adapted to it if so desired.
    If it was mine and I was determined to sell I would ask 800 if it hasn't been dickered with.
    If no-one wanted it I would keep it. That one should have a steel butt plate on it so that would be enough for me to keep it around to enjoy it.
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    Looks like a nice gun I would probably keep it.
    I don't usually see a lot of solid frame guns around in good shape when I look at them on the web.
    FWIW my 1897 will chamber and fire 2 and 3/4 shells no problem but the forcing cone is a little tight. (12 ga.)
    With a chamber gauge it measures around 2 5/8. It's from around 1904 or 14 I seem to think.
    I have also read in a book by Ackley that the 1897 action is strong enough that it could handle CF cartridges adapted to it if so desired.
    If it was mine and I was determined to sell I would ask 800 if it hasn't been dickered with.
    If no-one wanted it I would keep it. That one should have a steel butt plate on it so that would be enough for me to keep it around to enjoy it.

    Yes, this one has a steel butt plate. Wood to steel fit is excellent. Don’t know enuf about these to tell whether its been doctored, but i am unable to find any signs. Not suprising wood is as nice as it probably sat in a closet, used a bit. Metal is browning. Does not look e blued. Markings are strong. Thanks for the perspective on price. That would be a good price.
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,598
    Glen Burnie
    I've got 1899 as the manufactur year on that according to this site:

    http://oldguns.net/sn_php/winmods.htm

    That's an important distinction too because all other things being equal, a Winchester from 1898 is more valuable than one from 1899 due to the fact that 1898 is considered "antique," 1899 is not.

    According to the numbers on that site:
    34,203 - 1898 - this would be the last 1897 made in 1898
    34,204 - 1899 - this would be the first 1897 made in 1899

    At 40,xxx, it's solidly in 1899.

    EDIT: It appears that there are discrepancies regarding the model 1897, and there are multiple lists I've found online that have it as 1898 too. I've always trusted the oldguns.net source - it seems to be pretty accurate for the model 1886, but clearly it's not a definitive source.
     
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    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,598
    Glen Burnie
    I wanted to get to the bottom of the date of manufacture for this shotgun. I have the George Matis Winchester book, and George Matis was considered THE expert on all things Winchester.

    This is directly from the Matis book serial numbers list in the back - that particular 1897 was definitely made in 1899 according to the Matis book.
     

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    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    Thanks for the look see. the antiques firearms net shows it as a 1898. I never considered antique vs non antique as an element of value. I suppose it enters the picture for interstate shipment as an antique with no FFl needed, versus an intrastate sale where it is of no moment. And with the confusion, great question in terms of whether a prudent person would rely on an earlier published date of manuf or the latter. What do you think of value?
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,598
    Glen Burnie
    Thanks for the look see. the antiques firearms net shows it as a 1898. I never considered antique vs non antique as an element of value. I suppose it enters the picture for interstate shipment as an antique with no FFl needed, versus an intrastate sale where it is of no moment. And with the confusion, great question in terms of whether a prudent person would rely on an earlier published date of manual or the latter. What do you think of value?
    When you're talking about Winchesters, it's actually a major point of distinction with the date of manufacture and whether it's 1898 or before, or 1899 and after. What sucks is that the 1898/99 date difference is set in stone and it defines what is considered an "antique."

    As for the value of this particular Winchester, I'm really not sure. I love old Winchesters but I'm far from an expert when it comes to knowing what the value might be.
     

    kshaw

    Active Member
    Nov 21, 2012
    310
    Gaithersburg, MD
    I have one of these in 16 gauge that I inherited but I have no idea on the value. Mine is a fun gun to shoot but it tends to jam, and breakdown for cleaning seems to a complicated process.
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    I have one of these in 16 gauge that I inherited but I have no idea on the value. Mine is a fun gun to shoot but it tends to jam, and breakdown for cleaning seems to a complicated process.

    Nice. Very nice gauge. I have a side by side Winchester in 16 and its a pleasure. Seems like there is a lot of interest in the 16.
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    30" is the standard length that most of these were sold in. You find a lot cut down to between 24" and 20" as some folks wanted a more open pattern and shorter barrel for ruffed grouse, woodcock, rabbits, and other game that tends to have you humping it through brush. Yet others cut them down for cowboy action shoots later on, or in an attempt to make them into replica "trench guns" or pass them off as "riot guns" to the unsuspecting.

    I would imagine the choke is "Full" (should be on the left side of the bbl near the receiver) as that tended to be the mail-order single-barrel choke that most people went for at that time due to the wider patterning that shotshells pre-dating modern plastic shot-cup technology had.

    In terms of value, I agree with Doco. I don't see solid frames as much as takedowns these days, and she seems like she's in excellent condition give the age. Nice patina, nice wood. I'd hang on to her if I was in your position.

    For further valuation, you can compare with the bevy of 1897s up for auction here: https://www.proxibid.com/Regency-Re...Estate-of-Harold-B-Wolfe/event-catalog/193740

    You'll get a good idea of value after these go to hammer.
     

    Virgil Co.C

    Active Member
    Aug 10, 2018
    615
    Ahhh that things a piece of junk , I will do you a favor and take it off your hands so you don’t have to deal with it no more . Have a bridge in Arizona for sale also .
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Ahhh that things a piece of junk , I will do you a favor and take it off your hands so you don’t have to deal with it no more . Have a bridge in Arizona for sale also .

    You'd be surprised how well that line actually works when used by a gun-store owner on an unsuspecting rube looking to sell their inherited collection....
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    Just to ramble a bit. I found and kept a 1930 parker trojan 12 ga in decent shape with initials of seller’s great grandfather discretly engraved in the tang. GG owned an eastern shore hardware store that was a parker dealer. Wonder if he bought it wholesale or it was given to him by parker?(I Took it out to shoot birds but after a bit of hiking with it, substituted my browning o/u lightning 20. ) Also found and kept a gorgeous winchester mod 21 16 ga. Trap. Barrels made 10 years before my birth year, assembled in my birth year, per cody letter, and in town of birth.
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Just to ramble a bit. I found and kept a 1930 parker trojan 12 ga in decent shape with initials of seller’s great grandfather discretly engraved in the tang. GG owned an eastern shore hardware store that was a parker dealer. Wonder if he bought it wholesale or it was given to him by parker?(I Took it out to shoot birds but after a bit of hiking with it, substituted my browning o/u lightning 20. ) Also found and kept a gorgeous winchester mod 21 16 ga. Trap. Barrels made 10 years before my birth year, assembled in my birth year, per cody letter, and in town of birth.

    Good lord, go buy a lottery ticket already with that kind of luck!

    Parker was probably bought wholesale. I've not seen any info indicating they gave away "samples" or the like.
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    Good lord, go buy a lottery ticket already with that kind of luck!

    Parker was probably bought wholesale. I've not seen any info indicating they gave away "samples" or the like.

    I like to think of that hardware store. Was the parker trojan an inexpensive, hardware store double back then?
     

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