Old October 8th, 2020, 08:01 AM #1
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BH209, rust?

So I wish I had taken pictures, but I am trying to figure out what happened with my CVA Wolf and Black Horn 209. Hit the range yesterday to sight it in before early ML. Last season I had fire maybe 20 shots at the range switching to BH209 for the first time. Swabbed the bore with a patch and fired a final fouling shot. Loaded it up for early ML. Went out for a super windy day and saw nothing. then was too busy the rest of early and late ML to do any more hunting. I took out the breach plug and shoved out the bullet, sabot and charge in to the trash somewhere late January. I ran I think one patch with some Hoppes on it (I think it was Hoppes), put the breach plug back in with some grease on the threads and put it away. Basement has a dehumidifier and I keep a rechargeable one in the gun safe. No issues with rust on any of my guns from my storage FYI.

The CVA wolf is an SS barrel. Yes I know SS can still rust, it is just more resistant to it.

So fast forward to today. I went to put a patch down the barrel before loading and shooting just to get rid of any last stuff in there (and on the off chance I had run a patch with a bunch of oil on it down the bore last as I am not positive exactly what I did before putting it away). Cleaning rod and patch get stuck I am HAULING on it and no good. Take out the breach plug and have to whack the cleaning rod nice and hard to push it through. The patch is deep red. RUST red.

I look down the bore and there is caked all over where the powder had sat something. Reverse the patch and still really hard to push down the bore at the end and I can't pull it back out, I've gotta push it through again. I get out the brass brush and a few passes through with some solvent and it is mostly cleaned up. The breach plug also is caked on the end with what looks like rust, but like easily a mm or two thick. Brass brush with solvent takes it off pretty easily.

NO pitting that is visible in the bore or on the breech plug.

What. The. F?

Maybe it wasn't rust? The only other possible thing I can think of is that there was some powder left that I didn't scrub out, because I know I didn't do a through job of cleaning it (because it is supposed to be non-corrosive). Is there phosphorous in the powder? Because that is the only other thing I can think of is some kind of reaction with phosphorous and the cleaner, maybe with some moisture over time as phosphorous is the only other thing I can think of that can be remotely that color red.

But again, the plug and bore look just fine after cleaning. I put two pre-measured charges down range that I had loaded up last season. First was .8" low left at 50yds. Second one was dead bullseye. Then I made up a charge and put it down range and it connected the first and second shot holes. Ran a dry patch, put it away.
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Old October 8th, 2020, 09:00 AM #2
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209

Not sure why your gun rusted, I have been using BH 209 for about 5 years in a SS TC Omega. I don't leave any loads in the gun except if I am hunting for a few days in a row. I have never had any issues and BH is the Best. try the BH bore cleaner.
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Old October 8th, 2020, 09:18 AM #3
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I've had a BH209 load in my Omega, in a clean barrel, for a year and never had rust. I did forget to clean my muzzy, many years ago and had a little pitting. I'll never make that mistake again. Rifle still shoots accurately, but it could have really messed that barrel up. I had shot a deer in late ML season. Reloaded that day and hunted the next weekend with that load. I never fired it for the rest of that year. I just forgot about it, until late the next summer.
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Old October 8th, 2020, 10:02 AM #4
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IDK if BH209 is similar to BP in how it reacts with Hoppes 9, but BP and distillates (Hoppes 9) lead to rust. I always use a patch of Bore Butter after cleaning.
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Old October 8th, 2020, 10:31 AM #5
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For black powder rifles, I always leave a coating of patch grease, store bought or my own beeswax tallow mixture. I have never had any rust and it doesn't create a tar like petro products will if any BP residue is in the bore.
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Old October 8th, 2020, 10:38 AM #6
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That’s the thing though, I am not sure it was rust. It was THICK, like several millimeters thick ring. Not the width of the ring, but at least 1-2mm intrusion in to the bore from walls. Which is why I had a hard
Tome getting the ram rod past it and it got stuck.

There is zero pitting or damage. I can’t figure out how the heck there could be that much dust, but zero physical evidence of any rust after scrubbing out the bore. And it didn’t take a Singin fix and amount of time to clean it out.

I’ve scrub rusts ML from moisture/BP combo. I’ve done the same for rifles shot with corrosive powder and not properly cleaned. Not anything like what was going on with this.

I am still mystified.
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Old October 8th, 2020, 10:56 AM #7
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I had a used CVA optima my dad got for my son at a gun show. It had pitting near the muzzle but was still accurate out to 100 yards.
I have had Zero problems with the Optima, CVA wolf and my Silencerco Maxim cleaning then swabbing with a patch sprayed on with Barricade at the end of the season.
I just pulled my 2 year old Maxim and its bright and shinny.
People will say not to use Barricade on a muzzle loader but I have always first cleaned with MAP, then dry patch, then run a cap on it before firing for the season to zero them in (requirement of my range) and have had zero problems with ignition.

Lazzarus, did you visually inspect bore before putting it away?
Did you clean the breach plug before you put it away?

If you have the 209 breach plug on the CVA, it has that deep Cone that needs to be cleaned out. I have always soaked and cleaned my breech plugs, then pulled the grease off, then put new grease on when cleaning at the end of the season.
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Old October 8th, 2020, 11:54 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
Thatís the thing though, I am not sure it was rust. It was THICK, like several millimeters thick ring. Not the width of the ring, but at least 1-2mm intrusion in to the bore from walls. Which is why I had a hard
Tome getting the ram rod past it and it got stuck.

There is zero pitting or damage. I canít figure out how the heck there could be that much dust, but zero physical evidence of any rust after scrubbing out the bore. And it didnít take a Singin fix and amount of time to clean it out.

Iíve scrub rusts ML from moisture/BP combo. Iíve done the same for rifles shot with corrosive powder and not properly cleaned. Not anything like what was going on with this.

I am still mystified.
Could have been carbon residue left from the compounds of the powder you were using.
You'll see the same thing in a new Browning rifle that results from the proof loads they use. Especially when you clean it before shooting for the first time.
Looks like rust but its not.
At any rate, with the exception of the smokeless ML I use for hunting I clean with boiling hot water immediately after shooting any of my muzzle-loading rifles.
Regardless of what manufacturers claim for negating the effects of the corrosive nature of their products, theirs only one way to be sure, and that's to do proper maintenance especially during a pre- storage routine.

And even then.... bore condition of ML rifles is still being degraded just through actual use regardless of how well maintenance is done.
The only thing you can do is stay on top of it to be ahead of the curve.
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Old October 29th, 2020, 04:22 PM #9
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Sorry for taking awhile to reply. After early muzzleloader I inspected much closer. The powder when burned does seem to be leaving a residue which turns a bit red over time. I shot it a few times off the bench about 2 weeks ago, one dry patch, cleaned throughly at home loaded it up and then discharged it end of the day Friday last week. I cleaned it THROUGHLY.

Cleaned it Sunday and a bit of red residue. It’s definitely on the surface of the burned powder, not directly on the metal. Cleans right off. It’s really odd. Bore looks perfect other than a little bit of plastic residue from the sabots I am not quite willing to scrub aggressively enough to get off (looked close, it is not carbon residue, pitting or any kind of corrosion).

Dunno. I do wonder if there is phosphorous in the powder and it’s not completely combusting, leaving a bit to oxidize
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