Remington Bankrupt again

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  • Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,267
    Harford County
    How TF can a company that makes ammunition and one of the two most popular affordable defensive shotguns be bankrupt at a time like this? :wtf:
     

    Huckleberry

    No One of Consequence
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 19, 2007
    23,313
    Severn & Lewes
    The Navajo Nation also backoffed in their interest to purchase Remington.

    The mountain of debt and worthless product lines from their acquisition mania is dragging them under even with their high sales due to the market

    Wallstreet venture vultures picked them clean and left the gut pile for somebody else to clean up.
     

    MaxVO2

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    How TF can a company that makes ammunition and one of the two most popular affordable defensive shotguns be bankrupt at a time like this? :wtf:

    ****Excessive debt and poor management. There are plenty of folks that got rich off Remington, unfortunately it wasn't Remington. Capital investment groups have saddled the company with "investments" that didn't pan out, and paid themselves handsomely from resources that would have better been used to reinvest in the company itself. This happens a lot. General Motors, Chrysler, to a lesser degree GE under Jeffrey Immelt, etc..

    You could make a pretty cogent argument that the same is happening with the USA right now. We just aren't as far along yet, but getting there awfully fast with Covid being the latest insanely expensive to pay for problem.

    It's difficult for many people to live within their means and it's the same with companies. Debt can be good or bad I guess - good debt would be investing in the growth of the company that will hopefully pay off down the line... Bad debt could be excessive payouts for litigation, or as salaries and bonuses to board members, officers, etc... that are not producing results.

    Having a good product or service is not enough, but does make things easier.. It takes a lot more to run a successful business, especially a larger company with many moving parts. Bad leadership can bring down a business pretty quickly.
     

    TheOriginalMexicanBob

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 2, 2017
    32,179
    Sun City West, AZ
    How TF can a company that makes ammunition and one of the two most popular affordable defensive shotguns be bankrupt at a time like this? :wtf:

    That's not the first time and probably won't be the last. Back in the 1950s a company called Penn-Texas purchased Colt...changed the corporate name to Colt Industries which had numerous divisions such as the Colt Firearms Division and Holley Carburetors and others...then proceeded to milk them dry.

    Colt Industries sucked all the money from Colt Firearms...they made big bucks off the M16 contract through the Vietnam War and beyond. They allowed the commercial side of Colt to waste away...little investment in modernizing the factory and updating the product line...they allowed Smith & Wesson to take over the law enforcement market in the '60s. In the '80s when Colt lost the M16 contracts the corporate overlords saw no more meat on the bone after they allowed the Firearms Division to become non-competitive and pretty much dumped Colt's cars by the wide of the road. Different owners since have tried and made enough mistakes of their own.

    This isn't too much different from what occurred with Remington. When people who don't know the gun business own the company and put people in charge of production with no experience in the products this is what happens.
     

    Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,267
    Harford County
    It just seems like, given the current climate and knowing it is going to be like this until November, somebody would give them a loan to fire up the 18" 870 and 9mm ammo production lines...knowing that they would sell everything they made for almost double what they did last year. :shrug:
     

    135sohc

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 27, 2013
    1,157
    3 months to get things going wont do anything. Remington Arms Q/C has been spotty at best the last few years. If the people that work there just dont care anymore or they really just dont know any better ?
     

    NateIU10

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 6, 2009
    4,587
    Southport, CT
    It just seems like, given the current climate and knowing it is going to be like this until November, somebody would give them a loan to fire up the 18" 870 and 9mm ammo production lines...knowing that they would sell everything they made for almost double what they did last year. :shrug:

    Yeah, it’s not that easy to “turn on” manufacturing in this industry, at least in my limited experience. Also, no way I’d loan money to them after the last bankruptcy. Even if it wasn’t subordinated debt, good luck seeing any of it. Finally, a market like the one we are in right now doesn’t really change margin for manufacturers. Distributor pricing (and I suppose dealer pricing if you sell there as well) is set it and forget it. We aren’t making any more money on AR-556 rifles in this market just because people are paying more for them (which I have no problem with, dealers have been on razor thin margins the last couple years).

    This thread reminds me I need to get my 870s out and oil them so they don’t rust...
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Chapter 11 is reorg; I'd be shocked if they had stopped manufacturing lines. It certainly would not be good for their debtors.

    It is probably time to break up the product lines and sell them piecemeal. Remington itself seems like a bit of a basket case, and I'm not sure that it's fixable at this point. The brand itself also has a ton of value, and could be good for a lesser-known but more successful buyer to transition into (ala Armalite).
     

    DanGuy48

    Ultimate Member
    “Here are the details on the successful bidders and the Remington businesses they are buying:

    Vista Outdoor Inc. for its Lonoke ammunitions business and certain IP assetsRoundhill Group LLC for its non-Marlin firearms businessSierra Bullets LLC for its Barnes ammunitions businessSturm, Ruger, & Co. for its Marlin firearms businessJJE Capital Holdings LLC for DPMS, H&R, Stormlake, AAC and Parker brandsFranklin Armory Holdings Inc. for Bushmaster brand and some related assetsSportsman’s Warehouse Inc. for Tapco brands.”

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/remington-auctioned-off-seven-bidders-015154516.html
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    You can't run a successful firearms business these days by not designing new and interesting products to attract new buyers.

    Yes, the 870, 1100, and 700 are all good at what they do, but they're over-priced for what they are and haven't really changed in nearly a century in some cases.

    The R51 rollout was a debacle that showed just how desperate they were to get a new product out there. They sat on the sidelines while the competition evolved with the "wonder-nine" revolution, and were very late to the game where the AR market was concerned. And when they did try to join in on those markets, they produced mediocre offerings that nobody really cared to pay for.

    Add in the fact that some of the best weapons they ever made are now widely available on the used market and well, there's little need to buy a new Remington arm anymore.
     

    Jake4U

    Now with 67% more FJB
    Sep 1, 2018
    1,150
    Add in the fact that some of the best weapons they ever made are now widely available on the used market and well, there's little need to buy a new Remington arm anymore.

    Except the Tac-13. If they could have found a way to drop the price a bit and made them more available when released, they'd be selling the crap out of them in the current market. Who needs an AOW NFA stamp when you can buy this semi auto of goodness.
     

    Kharn

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 9, 2008
    3,578
    Hazzard County
    I hope they spin back up, I really want a 700CP chassis pistol in .300 Blackout.

    I wonder how many decades of dust they're blowing off of stuff in the warehouse to do a close-out audit on the old FFL and start a new FFL.
     

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