Being devils advocate...

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  • fireup

    Member
    Oct 14, 2010
    156
    Catonsville
    I know I'm throwing myself to the wolves here but it has been weighing on my mind since the 6th as I sat in the overflow room listening to testimony for hours. It has to do with different options to this gun bill and specifically the hand gun licensing. (I want to be clear that I do not support any licensing on a constitutional right as I believe that the right to bear arms is firm and absolute)
    In saying that... What would be said to if after going through all the proposed hoops to get a license to obtain a handgun, the state would also be required to issue a concealed carry permit... Would there be any support for a proposal like this? Don't rip my head off :D I gave fair warning
     

    ADR

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 17, 2011
    4,171
    A deal with the devil is still a deal with the devil regardless of what you think you have gained. Based on what they've tried thus far, they should be removed from office and incarcerated not bartered with. Just my .02
     

    jkray

    Active Member
    Jul 13, 2011
    840
    Germantown
    To go along with the same lines as the OP what if they decided to leave the purchasing process alone, but ammend it to allow people with CCW's to cash and carry anything. this would be predicated on actual shall issue in the state?

    Yes i know this is a pipe dream
     

    rob-cubed

    In need of moderation
    Sep 24, 2009
    5,387
    Holding the line in Baltimore
    No way... I am not giving up any more "control" to those who dislike guns even if they offer something I want in return. The government can't give me anything except what they've already taken away.

    The word "compromise" has no meaning when it's thrown around by people who are trying to force us to choose between the lesser of two evils.

    Anyway it's a pipe dream, the same people that want licensing and "assault weapons" banned are the ones that think concealed carry will turn us into the wild west.
     

    PJDiesel

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 18, 2011
    17,603
    To go along with the same lines as the OP what if they decided to leave the purchasing process alone, but amend it to allow people with CCW's to cash and carry anything. this would be predicated on actual shall issue in the state?

    I'd take a class and pay their fee for this.....:o
     

    Gbh

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 25, 2012
    2,260
    What would be said to if after going through all the proposed hoops to get a license to obtain a handgun, the state would also be required to issue a concealed carry permit... Would there be any support for a proposal like this? Don't rip my head off :D I gave fair warning

    Not every handgun owner wants to carry. Why would someone who simply wants to own a handgun want to "jump through all the proposed hoops" just to own a handgun?
     

    jonnyl

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 23, 2009
    5,969
    Frederick
    The problem is that their real goal is to put up barriers to gun ownership. The long term plan is to eventually reduce the number of gun owners to such a small percentage that there's no one left to put up much of a fight in years to come. People get used to having their rights restricted, and it's hard to get them back.

    Believe me, I've thought of plenty of "what if's" regarding these bills that would make my personal life easier. But compromising plays into their long term plans of eating the elephant one small bite at a time.
     

    BigT

    Large Member
    Dec 20, 2011
    285
    Hagerstown area
    The problem is that their real goal is to put up barriers to gun ownership.

    Agreed that is their goal...

    What they seem not to be able to realize is that they are only restricting legal gun ownership... They are actually going to be creating more illegal guns by placing fees and training requirements on law abiding citizens - many who simply cannot afford to meet these requirements... Their actions could actually be construed as racist and elitist preventing those who have less from ever being able to afford a firearm to protect themselves. (Well maybe they can come out with an O'malley gun like the Obama phone..)

    This crap piece of ill thought out legislation does absolutely nothing to prevent the purchase of illegal guns or remove them from the hands of criminals.. What a bunch of idiots that govern this state..
     

    Mike OTDP

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 12, 2008
    3,318
    IF they offered a trade of shall-issue for a licensing scheme, it would probably fly. Certainly opinions here would be divided.

    But our opponents aren't interested in compromise. They hate us.
     

    goofy810

    Active Member
    Jan 14, 2013
    307
    If they gave the shall issue as part of the deal and if you didn't want the CCW part took out the training and droped the cost to say $10 but then you can only have the gun at home could that pass. If you look at the bill it's the same rules as u need to get a CCW with our the benefit of getting a CCW. I agree they want to take our guns but if we could get CCW by allowing the license with the deal that you don't need the training if your not CCW and the cost drops on the license part I would be willing to. But they won't do it.
     

    Minuteman - Oath Keeper

    Guardian of the Republic
    Jan 28, 2013
    110
    Khandahar, Afghanistan
    Why should you have to compromise your natural born rights as free men? Are you willing to let them think that we will trade our rights like baseball cards? They give us a little scrap and we call it a victory?

    Our Founders didn't fight and die so we can only be serfs to an American government vice an European one.
     

    goofy810

    Active Member
    Jan 14, 2013
    307
    Why should you have to compromise your natural born rights as free men? Are you willing to let them think that we will trade our rights like baseball cards? They give us a little scrap and we call it a victory?

    Our Founders didn't fight and die so we can only be serfs to an American government vice an European one.

    I agree we shouldn't have to but I also know they don't care what we say they will push something through so if we could get something out of it then that's better then nothing u know
     

    bmelton

    Active Member
    Jan 23, 2013
    486
    The right to bear arms is a Constitutional right, and as such, is not subject to "interest-balancing". You might hear some people talk about "reasonable restrictions" to that right, and they're almost always offering some kind of "common sense" background check, or something to that effect, but what the framers considered a reasonable restriction would be more like "let there be laws against murder."

    Another thing about Constitutional rights is that they are ingrained, and hence, are not subject to being bargained away. I cannot, for example, trade my freedom for a new Les Paul. I cannot be enslaved, willingly or otherwise, because my right to freedom is not negotiable. Same thing with other enumerated rights, you can't bargain them away.

    What the Maryland legislature is attempting to do is Unconstitutional, and in a smarter decade, I'd say that there's no way it could possibly be upheld for long, but even if they were to succeed, it wouldn't be Constitutional of them to place infringements on our rights in trade for something else, especially as it's a downward trade.
     

    goofy810

    Active Member
    Jan 14, 2013
    307
    I agree I just really want a CCW my wife is a lawyer so she can get one and dam does she rub it in my face grrr
     

    bmelton

    Active Member
    Jan 23, 2013
    486
    I agree I just really want a CCW my wife is a lawyer so she can get one and dam does she rub it in my face grrr

    Have her file a suit against the state of Maryland for violating your Constitutional Rights. As per Woollard, the state of Maryland has been ordered to begin processing CCW permits as 'shall-issue', they just aren't doing it yet due to a stay of Judge Legg's ruling.

    The last update I recall hearing on that was in March -- perhaps a well-timed civil suit would motivate them to move, one way or the other?
     

    fleaman64

    Ultimate Member
    May 12, 2011
    1,367
    A deal with the devil is still a deal with the devil regardless of what you think you have gained. Based on what they've tried thus far, they should be removed from office and incarcerated not bartered with. Just my .02

    +1
     

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