Form 1 multiple submissions

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  • EarnestT

    In the hollow
    Aug 18, 2013
    1,583
    Not in Maryland
    I want to submit 3 form 1's at the same time. Do I need 3 sets of prints? 3 photos?
     

    Klunatic

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2011
    2,923
    Montgomery Cty
    Not sure about as and individual. If your going to do more NFA items in the future setup a trust. Then you only need to submit prints 1 time.
     

    Klunatic

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2011
    2,923
    Montgomery Cty
    Is this your first submission for the trust post July? If so one set of prints is all you need as far as I understand it. I don't believe you need to send a photo. If you want to make sure call Martinsburg NFA branch and ask, 304-616-4500. The people there are very helpful.
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    I believe that is correct... the info (prints and photo, I think... ) has to be submitted once and that is good for two years, as I recall, before you have to resubmit that info.
     

    quattroginger

    Active Member
    Feb 22, 2013
    188
    Form 1's approved first week of september but still haven't received a stamp in the mail. Not sure what exactly it would look like. Would it be email if efiled?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N930A using Tapatalk
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    Form 1's approved first week of september but still haven't received a stamp in the mail. Not sure what exactly it would look like. Would it be email if efiled?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N930A using Tapatalk
    If you e-filed, the stamp is attached to the approval e-mail as a pdf file... ;)

    eta - just print that pdf and you are good to go, but... mine had the DRAFT watermarks on them both and I had to email ATF and get that corrected. It took about a week (during the Labor Day Holiday weekend).
     

    namelessname120

    Active Member
    Jul 6, 2011
    753
    Soooooo, if I have a family member as the beneficiary of my trust then they don't have to submit prints and photos? How /Who do I notify my cleo if I live in Baltimore city? Is it state police or Baltimore city police ?
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    Soooooo, if I have a family member as the beneficiary of my trust then they don't have to submit prints and photos? How /Who do I notify my cleo if I live in Baltimore city? Is it state police or Baltimore city police ?
    As long as they are not a trustee, no... they only have to be 'legal' if and when you pass away and pass on your firearms... Can't help with CLEO, no clue yet.. lol

    Beneficiaries have no legal powers to act while you are alive, only co-trustees must submit info and prints, etc...
     

    Klunatic

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2011
    2,923
    Montgomery Cty
    "Repsonsible" members of trust have to submit form 5320.23 with photo and prints.

    “[T]he term “responsible person” for a trust or legal entity includes those persons who have the power and authority to direct the management and policies of the trust or legal entity to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the trust or entity.”

    They go on to further ‘clarify’ by adding that:

    “In the case of a trust, those with the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust include any person who has the capability to exercise such power AND possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority under any trust instrument, or under State law, to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for or on behalf of the trust." http://johnpierceesq.com/who-is-a-responsible-person-under-41f/
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    "Repsonsible" members of trust have to submit form 5320.23 with photo and prints.

    “[T]he term “responsible person” for a trust or legal entity includes those persons who have the power and authority to direct the management and policies of the trust or legal entity to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the trust or entity.”

    They go on to further ‘clarify’ by adding that:

    “In the case of a trust, those with the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust include any person who has the capability to exercise such power AND possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority under any trust instrument, or under State law, to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for or on behalf of the trust." http://johnpierceesq.com/who-is-a-responsible-person-under-41f/
    Simple translation... co-trustees... ;)
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    "Repsonsible" members of trust have to submit form 5320.23 with photo and prints.

    “[T]he term “responsible person” for a trust or legal entity includes those persons who have the power and authority to direct the management and policies of the trust or legal entity to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the trust or entity.”

    They go on to further ‘clarify’ by adding that:

    “In the case of a trust, those with the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust include any person who has the capability to exercise such power AND possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority under any trust instrument, or under State law, to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for or on behalf of the trust." http://johnpierceesq.com/who-is-a-responsible-person-under-41f/

    Nice link, but it does not address the need for multiple or later Form 1s and photos and fingerprints.
     

    Klunatic

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2011
    2,923
    Montgomery Cty
    It does not, and the NFA FAQ website seems to indicate that with each "new submission" a form 5020.23 must be submitted for each responsible persons with fingerprints. They don't define "submission" but I would take that to mean, 4 form 1's, sent in at the same time only will require 1 copy of trust, 5020.23 & Fingerprints. It does need further clarification to be sure.
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    It is a bit unclear for multiple, simultaneous submissions, I would call and ask about that...

    Here are some of the instructions on the Form1 that apply here...
     

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    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    Photo only required if the maker (this is a Form 1) is an individual, a trust does not require photos.

    If you have had a submission approved in the past 2 years and nothing has changed, you don't need to resubmit the trust info, though you do need to certify this and provide details on the previous approval

    As mentioned, you do, as a trust, need to complete and include a copy of the Form1 and 5320.23 form (for each responsible party) to the appropriate LEO.
     

    Klunatic

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2011
    2,923
    Montgomery Cty
    I called and spoke to a NFA examiner yesterday regarding 41f and trusts. Sorry guys but its bad news. With each new submission sent in you must include 2 copies of each of the following :
    1. Trust
    2. Fingerprint cards for each responsible person
    3. Form 5020.23 for each responsible person
    4. Photograph of each responsible person.

    There is no 2 year rule except for the trust paperwork. If you submitted a item with a copy of your trust, post 41f and you haven't made by changes, you don't have to send it a copy of the trust.
     

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