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  • novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    Honestly, from all the research I've done. The stats can go for us or against us, just like they can go for or against the Bradys. Crime will always exist. Socioeconomic status and geographic location have a lot to do with crime rates.

    For me it's not a numbers game. Plainly we have a right to self-defense. That is the bottom line. A free citizen is armed, bottom line. You really shouldn't have to argue much about it.

    For decades people have been arguing things using arbitrary correlations and statistics while ignoring the underlying issues. The RKBA issue is a moral and human issue, not a mathematical equation, IMO.
    BUt there is one very important aspect you missed IMO.
    Like I said to the reporter that asked me how the stats of lower crime can have other explanations besides allowing people to conceal carry and how it does not prove my position, I responded to her that I don't have to prove it is true. All I have to do is show it proves they (the Bradys) are wrong and their claims are lies.
    More legally purchased guns or more guns overall even and more concealed carry did NOT raise murder and violent crime as the Brady Campaign (as HCI too) said for decades.

    See, the biggest tool for inducing hysteria the antis have been using for forty years or more is statistics and scary large numbers. We remove that basis for their entire position from them and their house of cards falls down.
    The best way to fight propaganda that people fell for is not with more propaganda, rather it is to expose their propaganda as lies to the people that fell for it and nothing will change someone's mind more than knowing they were being manipulated and taken for fools.

    I will continue to focus on the statistics to a severe degree as a counter to them using theirs, but I will also constantly point out that it is all really about a personal human right to self defense (like I did yesterday).
     

    Martian

    MSI Executive Member
    Mar 15, 2007
    517
    PG Co.
    See, the biggest tool for inducing hysteria the antis have been using for forty years or more is statistics and scary large numbers. We remove that basis for their entire position from them and their house of cards falls down.
    The best way to fight propaganda that people fell for is not with more propaganda, rather it is to expose their propaganda as lies to the people that fell for it and nothing will change someone's mind more than knowing they were being manipulated and taken for fools.

    I will continue to focus on the statistics to a severe degree as a counter to them using theirs, but I will also constantly point out that it is all really about a personal human right to self defense (like I did yesterday).

    Sarah Brady, Carolyn McCarthy, Joe Curran, and many of the key players in organizations like the VPC, LCAV, and CSGV, as well as participants in the Freedom States Alliance, Gun Guys, and other organizations/sites almost all have some trauma incident history where a gun was involved that drives their behavior.

    Whether it was a friend, family member, or associate, all of them may suffer from post-trauma stress of some sort, or at least now have an "engram" that replays a vignette and compels them to spread their own unfounded fear by any means, which results in a wave of viral hysteria--the breeding ground for mass hysteria. This causes people to substitute a fear reaction for reasoned thought that would be based on critical thinking.

    Statistics will not reach the masses--only intellectuals--except in very simplistic comparisons. So the effort has to focus on multiple fronts. It's really an educational effort.

    The FBI stats and CDC stats both can be used to make different points, depending on the focus and abstractions. The antis even attacked the National Academy of Sciences for results they didn't like, using statistical methods, and the NAS is known for studies heavy on stats conducted by juried researchers.

    And I think Kopel is right--we need to focus on a grassroots effort to get citizens of other countries to fight for rights similar to those we enjoy in the U.S. Otherwise the U.N. will nibble away at us until we fall--and they are already on a roll with the IACOP being cited extensively by our own national and local legislators and other officials.

    The Brady playbook draws directly from the U.N. position, and the Joyce Foundation funded the IACOP Summit last year as well as some of the organizations I listed above. So we must respond to the fact that the U.N. itself is committed to ending our Constitutional rights.
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    Sarah Brady, Carolyn McCarthy, Joe Curran, and many of the key players in organizations like the VPC, LCAV, and CSGV, as well as participants in the Freedom States Alliance, Gun Guys, and other organizations/sites almost all have some trauma incident history where a gun was involved that drives their behavior.

    Whether it was a friend, family member, or associate, all of them may suffer from post-trauma stress of some sort, or at least now have an "engram" that replays a vignette and compels them to spread their own unfounded fear by any means, which results in a wave of viral hysteria--the breeding ground for mass hysteria. This causes people to substitute a fear reaction for reasoned thought that would be based on critical thinking.

    Statistics will not reach the masses--only intellectuals--except in very simplistic comparisons. So the effort has to focus on multiple fronts. It's really an educational effort.

    The FBI stats and CDC stats both can be used to make different points, depending on the focus and abstractions. The antis even attacked the National Academy of Sciences for results they didn't like, using statistical methods, and the NAS is known for studies heavy on stats conducted by juried researchers.

    And I think Kopel is right--we need to focus on a grassroots effort to get citizens of other countries to fight for rights similar to those we enjoy in the U.S. Otherwise the U.N. will nibble away at us until we fall--and they are already on a roll with the IACOP being cited extensively by our own national and local legislators and other officials.

    The Brady playbook draws directly from the U.N. position, and the Joyce Foundation funded the IACOP Summit last year as well as some of the organizations I listed above. So we must respond to the fact that the U.N. itself is committed to ending our Constitutional rights.
    :thumbsup: I do not totally agree, but this is such an excellent post and my tiny disagreement seems so small in comparison to the rest of the great parts you exemplified and laid out that it is pointless to state.
    I agree!!:goodpost:
     

    BenL

    John Galt Speaking.
    :goodpost: We need that chart posted! I bet it would be very popular on all the gun forums. Someone needed that chart being held as a sign behind Helmke when he was in front of the cameras yesterday. The Brady's would have had a cow!

    Post the chart :thumbsup:

    -Boxcab

    NEVERMIND: I found it here... http://www.swivel.com/data_sets/spreadsheet/1010770 not a clear as you would hope.

    I'll look around and see if I hung on to it (it was a while ago). If I did, I'll post it.
     

    Martian

    MSI Executive Member
    Mar 15, 2007
    517
    PG Co.
    Thank you to everyone who showed up to support Dick Anthony Heller in his fight for his Constitutional and natural rights to self defense.

    Second Amendment Sisters and Maryland Shall Issue were featured in the media worldwide. For example, see the slideshow at

    http://www.nbc4.com/slideshow/15629546/detail.html?taf=dc

    I knew people were starting to take notice when I first received email from Mr. Heller, saying he really liked the SAS-MD Chapter website, and thanking me for my advocacy.

    Yesterday SAS national and state officials joined Mr. Heller and his attorney to hear their own review of the history of the case and the SCOTUS proceedings. It all started with 2 guys in a basement becoming angry about having their rights infringed. We look forward to an article that should be published soon that will detail what we heard and much more.

    Thanks to everyone who showed solidarity with DC citizens who seek to reclaim their rights. This was one of those great historic events.

    :sign11:
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    haha photo 11 i wish i woulda turned my back to the camera better, u can just barely see the back of my mdshooters shirt...dang
     

    Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,847
    Mr. Norton goes to Washington:

    IMG_31271.jpg
     

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