For Highpower Matches, a Complete upper, Recommend?

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  • slsc98

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2012
    6,746
    Escaped MD-stan to WNC Smokies
    I got back into Highpower Rifle shooting last summer with a 20” Colt HBAR A2 and I’ve decided it is worth it at this point to go ahead and start shooting a scope.

    So, I am wondering what make etc. gives me the best odds of winding up with an actual match grade 10-ring worthy complete upper?

    I was thinking LaRue but, wow, $1,200 and up and I see they no longer offer any hint of a guarantee as to moa accuracy. Same seems to be the case for L. Baer.

    For those of you competing, what is a good bet for a XTC shooter holding high sharpshooter and occasional low Expert scores with open irons (and a stock trigger until 3 days ago!)?
     

    Speed3

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 19, 2011
    7,816
    MD
    White oak armament or compass lake engineering with a Kreiger barell.

    I'll 2nd white oak, their barrels shoot just as well as a kreiger but likely won't last as long.

    Park ranger would be a better one to ask, he was/is a high-power guy. I'd bet walking the firing line at camp perry you'll see 90% white oak or kreiger barrels
     

    dist1646

    Ultimate Member
    May 1, 2012
    8,758
    Eldersburg
    White oak armament or compass lake engineering with a Kreiger barrel.

    Either of these is capable of high X count cleans. Krieger or Bartlein barrel. Biggest question is what optic to use. White Oak does offer service rifle optics so take a look at those. The best optics are expensive! I use a Leupold VXR Patrol that I picked up used for a really decent price <$300 and it will do the job so, take your time looking at what is out there, you can save some $ that way.
     

    bpm32

    Active Member
    Nov 26, 2010
    675
    Either of these is capable of high X count cleans. Krieger or Bartlein barrel. Biggest question is what optic to use. White Oak does offer service rifle optics so take a look at those. The best optics are expensive! I use a Leupold VXR Patrol that I picked up used for a really decent price <$300 and it will do the job so, take your time looking at what is out there, you can save some $ that way.

    I haven’t paid attention to Service Rifle optics for a while, but I’m in the market for one. Have the SR guys settled on a good standard scope (other than a $2k Nightforce)?
     

    dist1646

    Ultimate Member
    May 1, 2012
    8,758
    Eldersburg
    I haven’t paid attention to Service Rifle optics for a while, but I’m in the market for one. Have the SR guys settled on a good standard scope (other than a $2k Nightforce)?

    Not yet. Still some debate as to which reticle is the best. Lots of discussion about price. With some optics costing more than the rifle, everyone is hoping for a reliable and less costly scope than March or Nightforce. Leupold seems to be decent but is up there in cost too. I have looked through quite a few of them and am not 100% satisfied with anything currently on the market. I do think that if Leupold put their Leupold dot reticle in their SR scope, they would have a winner, even though they are around $1500. Some folks are satisfied with the old discontinued Vortex scope even with 1/2 min clicks instead of 1/4 min. My Leupold VXR Partol has mil clicks and it does take some getting used to after using 1/4's for so long. There is still a thread on optics over on the NM forum.
     

    slsc98

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2012
    6,746
    Escaped MD-stan to WNC Smokies
    Holee kow, am I ever glad I asked here, now!

    I mean, I knew I’d been out of the highpower service rifle game too long but, geez, I didn’t even know names like White Oak, Compass Lake or Bartlein existed! (Krieger otoh, lol!)

    Funny you should mention optics as a primary driver of my decision to graduate up from open irons is a buddy selling a NIB Leupold 171556 1-6x24 FireDot G BDC MultiGun 30mm half what he paid for it. Even though Leupold is no longer making that particular scope, I’m sure it will be many years (more than likely eternity!) before I ever get to a level where I would deserve let alone need anything more than a good bbl like those mentioned and such an optic ...!

    And, in all honesty, I don’t think I’d be investing in an upper/bbl if it weren’t for the fact this friend was making such an optic affordable for me! (At least that’s the way I’m gonna ‘splain it to you-know-who if the new rig ever comes to light, hahahaha - same buddy sold us an Aimpoint CompM4s for her lightweight carbine so, she’ll just have to get over me getting glass too!

    Most of all, THANK Y’ALL and MERRRRRRRRRRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!
     

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    dist1646

    Ultimate Member
    May 1, 2012
    8,758
    Eldersburg
    Holee kow, am I ever glad I asked here, now!

    I mean, I knew I’d been out of the highpower service rifle game too long but, geez, I didn’t even know names like White Oak, Compass Lake or Bartlein existed! (Krieger otoh, lol!)

    Funny you should mention optics as a primary driver of my decision to graduate up from open irons is a buddy selling a NIB Leupold 171556 1-6x24 FireDot G BDC MultiGun 30mm half what he paid for it. Even though Leupold is no longer making that particular scope, I’m sure it will be many years (more than likely eternity!) before I ever get to a level where I would deserve let alone need anything more than a good bbl like those mentioned and such an optic ...!

    Most of all, THANK Y’ALL and MERRRRRRRRRRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!

    Service rifle rules limit the magnification to a max of 4.5x so that scope wouldn't be permitted under the SR rules. Some branches of the military are going to a bit higher magnification so the rule may change at some point but it's anyone's guess as to when.
     

    slsc98

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2012
    6,746
    Escaped MD-stan to WNC Smokies
    Service rifle rules limit the magnification to a max of 4.5x so that scope wouldn't be permitted under the SR rules. Some branches of the military are going to a bit higher magnification so the rule may change at some point but it's anyone's guess as to when.

    Ooops, thank you; I was wrong then; I thought I’d heard up to 6x but, that was very likely me not wearing my hearing aids.

    I have a Burris fixed 4x I just mounted a couple days ago but, on a 16” HBAR so, I want to get that out and see what I can do with it.

    We are very fortunate to have a fellow in our area that is positively ate up with promoting HP and SR and getting the 200- and 300-yard rifle ranges (and working butts) in our area all back up and running matches year ‘round
     

    temccoy

    Active Member
    Nov 13, 2020
    102
    I am shooting hi power with a stock Rock River NM upper on an Anderson lower. It shoots great, certainly better than I can. You definitely should use a scope, much better than iron sights. I also have an AR with a Krieger barrel, and while it also shoots great, it is not much, if any, more accurate than my stock Rock River. Once you add in the wobble from shooting in position, especially standing, I am not sure you will benefit from the additional cost and time of building a custom rifle. Just my opinion from shooting high power for awhile. Good luck, if you live near Damascus, we will start shooting monthly matches there in the Spring at the IWLA.
     

    kstone803

    Official Meat Getter
    Feb 25, 2009
    3,923
    Ltown in the SMC
    Hey buddy,

    Hope y'all are having a Merry Christmas down there. I can personally vouch for White Oak Armament. My 18 inch shoots 5 into a half inch all day with handloads. I built mine so it's just their barrel but I assume their house built uppers would be fine quality too. Cheers.
     

    slsc98

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2012
    6,746
    Escaped MD-stan to WNC Smokies
    I am shooting hi power with a stock Rock River NM upper on an Anderson lower. It shoots great, certainly better than I can. You definitely should use a scope, much better than iron sights. I also have an AR with a Krieger barrel, and while it also shoots great, it is not much, if any, more accurate than my stock Rock River. Once you add in the wobble from shooting in position, especially standing, I am not sure you will benefit from the additional cost and time of building a custom rifle. Just my opinion from shooting high power for awhile. Good luck, if you live near Damascus, we will start shooting monthly matches there in the Spring at the IWLA.

    Good advice and much appreciated! I’m not setting my sights on Camp Perry (that was too much like work when I was in my late 20’s early 30’s, haha! Just want to really, really challenge myself (which is why I forced myself to just suck it up with open irons first year. “Indian / arrow” thing...)

    The guys I’m shooting with (all Ret’d ARNG / Camp Valor crews) are actually all shooting Rock River uppers ... hmmm.

    Hey, here’s a pretty interesting article one of them sent me a bit ago: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/b...h-grade-service-rifle-for-the-presidents-100/

    LOL, I’m about 7-hours and 450 miles SW of y’all and pretty much told my wife, family notwithstanding, after all the $oro$ antics this summer I don’t “intend” to set foot in MD ever again (there is this target card to PG Skeet & Trap with like 800 targets left on it :mad54:)

    But, “never say never,” right?

    Needless to say, if YOU’RE ever down Hickory, NC way, hit me up!
     

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    Red1917

    Active Member
    Apr 13, 2017
    665
    Anne Arundel County
    Good thread, I’ve also been looking for a new upper or complete rifle. I did ok with a standard a2 upper but looking for something free floated.

    Shooting a M1917 in an 800 agg match this Saturday so that should be fun!
     

    slsc98

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2012
    6,746
    Escaped MD-stan to WNC Smokies
    Hey buddy,

    Hope y'all are having a Merry Christmas down there. I can personally vouch for White Oak Armament. My 18 inch shoots 5 into a half inch all day with handloads. I built mine so it's just their barrel but I assume their house built uppers would be fine quality too. Cheers.

    Oh man WE. MISS. YALL. SO. MUCH!

    I ask folks down here about shooting bowling pins and YOU SHOULD SEE the looks I get! :lol2:

    I’m on their webpage now! :party29:
     

    bpm32

    Active Member
    Nov 26, 2010
    675
    Not yet. Still some debate as to which reticle is the best. Lots of discussion about price. With some optics costing more than the rifle, everyone is hoping for a reliable and less costly scope than March or Nightforce. Leupold seems to be decent but is up there in cost too. I have looked through quite a few of them and am not 100% satisfied with anything currently on the market. I do think that if Leupold put their Leupold dot reticle in their SR scope, they would have a winner, even though they are around $1500. Some folks are satisfied with the old discontinued Vortex scope even with 1/2 min clicks instead of 1/4 min. My Leupold VXR Partol has mil clicks and it does take some getting used to after using 1/4's for so long. There is still a thread on optics over on the NM forum.

    Thanks! I had seen the guide one of the members at NM Forum was putting together a couple years ago and I see it’s expanded now—still no consensus. I was kind of hoping there was something nearly everyone agreed on now like White Oak Uppers, but for scopes.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    White Oak has their own scope now, $850.

    They used to recommend the Leupold with a change in reticle.

    It seems like the recommendation is a small dot with a circle around it. In light mirage, use the center dot. In heavier mirage, center the target in the circle.

    I have a White Oak upper I picked up, but haven't gotten around to putting an optic on it. I did buy the carry handle with upgraded rear sight.
     

    slsc98

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2012
    6,746
    Escaped MD-stan to WNC Smokies
    ...with a change in reticle.

    It seems like the recommendation is a small dot with a circle around it. In light mirage, use the center dot. In heavier mirage, center the target in the circle.

    I have a White Oak upper I picked up, but haven't gotten around to putting an optic on it. I did buy the carry handle with upgraded rear sight.

    That certainly makes sense to me as I took up Precision 10M air rifle (and pistol) practice in the basement to work on offhand daily and all’s I want bow is permission to go to a globe reticle front sight. So much so that I honestly would stay in irons for at least another year (possibly beyond) if I could take something akin to say, the Redfield Palma sights off my Kimber .22 rifle and plop them on my 20” Colt HBAR with a nice trigger!

    I was on their website a lot last night and was wondering what the differences might be, between that rear sight and the pretty nice one (to my very limited experience) that came on the 16” HBAR Competition Colt I bought during the some guns stamped “LE Govt Use Only” silliness ...
     

    ted76

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 20, 2013
    3,151
    Frederick
    Holee kow, am I ever glad I asked here, now!

    I mean, I knew I’d been out of the highpower service rifle game too long but, geez, I didn’t even know names like White Oak, Compass Lake or Bartlein existed! (Krieger otoh, lol!)

    Funny you should mention optics as a primary driver of my decision to graduate up from open irons is a buddy selling a NIB Leupold 171556 1-6x24 FireDot G BDC MultiGun 30mm half what he paid for it. Even though Leupold is no longer making that particular scope, I’m sure it will be many years (more than likely eternity!) before I ever get to a level where I would deserve let alone need anything more than a good bbl like those mentioned and such an optic ...!

    And, in all honesty, I don’t think I’d be investing in an upper/bbl if it weren’t for the fact this friend was making such an optic affordable for me! (At least that’s the way I’m gonna ‘splain it to you-know-who if the new rig ever comes to light, hahahaha - same buddy sold us an Aimpoint CompM4s for her lightweight carbine so, she’ll just have to get over me getting glass too!

    Most of all, THANK Y’ALL and MERRRRRRRRRRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!

    I would still jump on buying that scope, you can always find a use for it latter.
     

    dist1646

    Ultimate Member
    May 1, 2012
    8,758
    Eldersburg
    White Oak has their own scope now, $850.

    They used to recommend the Leupold with a change in reticle.

    It seems like the recommendation is a small dot with a circle around it. In light mirage, use the center dot. In heavier mirage, center the target in the circle.

    I have a White Oak upper I picked up, but haven't gotten around to putting an optic on it. I did buy the carry handle with upgraded rear sight.

    More recently, several decent shooters have mentioned that the circle seems to be a bit of a distraction and would rather see a dot with crosshairs of some sort. An illuminated dot seems to help as long as it is clear and not too big.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    What I read was there is an issue trying to aim the dot in high mirage conditions.

    But maybe that is why they want cross hairs.
     

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