best way to heat a home when power goes out?

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  • Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    rfwacs above reports $12k for his . Did he get ripped off ? I dunno , I haven't researched in depth for generator systems , but I doubt it would be off by factor of 20 times .

    I know that a plan A of using wirecutters to hack into furnace wiring or well pump wiring , twisting wires with cut off extension cords , and manually plugging in and out , is a definite non starter . If plan A instead is to run an extension cord in the window , and directly plug in freezer and torpedo heater , that's a different calculus.

    Quick search shows 12-15K portable generators by themselves to run $2200 to $3000 from Home Despot . Sure maybe find a sale somewhere , but that gives a ballpark . Plus whatever mods done by a real electrician to input into electric panel . I figure that's the basic approach of trotting out , yanking the pull cord , plugging in , and periodically refilling . No doubt bulk fuel tanks, automated switchover , enclosures to protect a permanent mounted generator from the weather , etc are additional $$ .

    Is that level of investment inherently out of the question for everyone ? No . But is it significant that a ( presumably) meaningful size full manual generator is 10x the cost of 2 or 3 Kerosene heaters ? You're durn tootin' !
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Kerosene heaters are inexpensive , and can crank out plenty of heat .

    ( Repeated for extra emphasis )

    Just ensure you crack some windows and it isn’t running too rich.

    Also a CO alarm.

    Lastly don’t run it while you sleep.

    An unvented kerosene heater is a whole lot safer than running a generator in your house.

    But it is still dangerous.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    rfwacs above reports $12k for his . Did he get ripped off ? I dunno , I haven't researched in depth for generator systems , but I doubt it would be off by factor of 20 times .

    I know that a plan A of using wirecutters to hack into furnace wiring or well pump wiring , twisting wires with cut off extension cords , and manually plugging in and out , is a definite non starter . If plan A instead is to run an extension cord in the window , and directly plug in freezer and torpedo heater , that's a different calculus.

    Quick search shows 12-15K portable generators by themselves to run $2200 to $3000 from Home Despot . Sure maybe find a sale somewhere , but that gives a ballpark . Plus whatever mods done by a real electrician to input into electric panel . I figure that's the basic approach of trotting out , yanking the pull cord , plugging in , and periodically refilling . No doubt bulk fuel tanks, automated switchover , enclosures to protect a permanent mounted generator from the weather , etc are additional $$ .

    Is that level of investment inherently out of the question for everyone ? No . But is it significant that a ( presumably) meaningful size full manual generator is 10x the cost of 2 or 3 Kerosene heaters ? You're durn tootin' !

    Dude, a 5-6kw generator is around $500-600 and can easily handle a couple 1500w space heaters and your fridge as well as some lights.

    3kw of space heaters is the equivalent to about a 10k BTU/hr kerosene heater and about 1,000,000x safer so long as the generator is outside and not by a primary air intake for the residence.

    Sure you want a whole house generator to run every electrical do dad you’ve got, your central air, heat pump or A/C, electric water heater, etc. along with an electrician and tapped off your gas line or a propane tank of large size.

    Absolutely you are looking at $12,000-15,000 or more.

    A 8-10kw generator that is gas powered and designed as a backup generator which can run most of a house except the real heavy hitters (and hell, could run a smaller whole house) and an electrician to either install a generator panel or an interlock switch would likely run you around $3,000-4,000.

    Can go even lower and DIY if you know what you are doing could be $600-800.
     

    [Kev308]

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 23, 2020
    3,800
    Maryland
    rfwacs above reports $12k for his . Did he get ripped off ? I dunno , I haven't researched in depth for generator systems , but I doubt it would be off by factor of 20 times .

    I know that a plan A of using wirecutters to hack into furnace wiring or well pump wiring , twisting wires with cut off extension cords , and manually plugging in and out , is a definite non starter . If plan A instead is to run an extension cord in the window , and directly plug in freezer and torpedo heater , that's a different calculus.

    Quick search shows 12-15K portable generators by themselves to run $2200 to $3000 from Home Despot . Sure maybe find a sale somewhere , but that gives a ballpark . Plus whatever mods done by a real electrician to input into electric panel . I figure that's the basic approach of trotting out , yanking the pull cord , plugging in , and periodically refilling . No doubt bulk fuel tanks, automated switchover , enclosures to protect a permanent mounted generator from the weather , etc are additional $$ .

    Is that level of investment inherently out of the question for everyone ? No . But is it significant that a ( presumably) meaningful size full manual generator is 10x the cost of 2 or 3 Kerosene heaters ? You're durn tootin' !

    If you got a boiler plan A isn't a big deal. It's an ignitor and circulating pump. However a furnace is a pretty heavy load.
    If I had a well pump, I would definitely put a manual pump inline the system somewhere to draw buckets of water.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    [Kev308];6160340 said:
    If you got a boiler plan A isn't a big deal. It's an ignitor and circulating pump. However a furnace is a pretty heavy load.
    If I had a well pump, I would definitely put a manual pump inline the system somewhere to draw buckets of water.

    That only really works with a shallow well down to about 33 feet. Our need a dual jet pump to go deeper. A standard submerged pump well is pushing the water column up as you cannot use suction at a depth great than about 33ft (at sea level). Typically more like 25ft IIRC is considered the cut off.

    A dual jet pump shoves the water down, forcing water back up with the impeller down in the well and the pump on the surface.

    But that’s uncommon (though my last house had that).

    A manual pump can work with those first two types.

    Most common is a submerged pump (like probably 99% of wells installed after the 70s) You’ll know because you have no motor or pump in your house. Just one inlet line coming in and electrical going out to the well.

    That type CANNOT be used with a manual pump. Period.

    Furnace isn’t necessarily a big load. If you have a heat pump it sure is. But a regular forced air oil or natural gas furnace is going to use on the order of 800-1200w for the fan, burner/igniter and combustion draft fan.

    And that’s on the high end.

    My oil boiler, circulator, etc. uses around 400w. The attic central air units use about 200w each (1/3hp fan units).

    Running on wood it is the 125w x2 for the two circulator pumps (one for the hydronic loop to the basement radiators loop, water heater loop and two attic force air units and one that circulates through the wood boiler loop. All of this is piped through the oil boiler. Plus 200w for each central air unit.

    Can ramp it down to 85w for each circulator if turned to low.
     

    SummitCnty

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 26, 2013
    2,223
    Frederick County
    I have a kero heater and a couple generators. However, the actual electric draw from my pellet stove while running is pretty small and I have used an inverter plugged into my truck to keep it going.

    I run my pellet stove and everything else I need with a 2000w Honda generator. The igniter is the only real load. The fans draw next to nothing. I have to do the extension cord shuffle for certain things but no big deal.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    That only really works with a shallow well down to about 33 feet. Our need a dual jet pump to go deeper. A standard submerged pump well is pushing the water column up as you cannot use suction at a depth great than about 33ft (at sea level). Typically more like 25ft IIRC is considered the cut off.

    Nope, this one goes to 150 feet - https://www.flojak.com/

    These go to 300 feet - https://www.bisonpumps.com/
     

    [Kev308]

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 23, 2020
    3,800
    Maryland
    That only really works with a shallow well down to about 33 feet. Our need a dual jet pump to go deeper. A standard submerged pump well is pushing the water column up as you cannot use suction at a depth great than about 33ft (at sea level). Typically more like 25ft IIRC is considered the cut off.

    A dual jet pump shoves the water down, forcing water back up with the impeller down in the well and the pump on the surface.

    But that’s uncommon (though my last house had that).

    A manual pump can work with those first two types.

    Most common is a submerged pump (like probably 99% of wells installed after the 70s) You’ll know because you have no motor or pump in your house. Just one inlet line coming in and electrical going out to the well.

    That type CANNOT be used with a manual pump. Period.

    Furnace isn’t necessarily a big load. If you have a heat pump it sure is. But a regular forced air oil or natural gas furnace is going to use on the order of 800-1200w for the fan, burner/igniter and combustion draft fan.

    And that’s on the high end.

    My oil boiler, circulator, etc. uses around 400w. The attic central air units use about 200w each (1/3hp fan units).

    Running on wood it is the 125w x2 for the two circulator pumps (one for the hydronic loop to the basement radiators loop, water heater loop and two attic force air units and one that circulates through the wood boiler loop. All of this is piped through the oil boiler. Plus 200w for each central air unit.

    Can ramp it down to 85w for each circulator if turned to low.

    Good to know. I'm on city water. Thanks for posting that info.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    Zero clearance propane fireplace. I really need a generator to run the blower though...
     

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    gwchem

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 18, 2014
    3,434
    SoMD
    Zero clearance propane fireplace. I really need a generator to run the blower though...

    That's our only option too. House if full electric, propane only for the stove and fireplace. Without the blower, it doesn't put out any heat.
     

    Mightydog

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Have a Ecofan for gas stove on my gas fireplace. Pushes the heat out into the room. Works great.
     

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    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    Have a Ecofan for gas stove on my gas fireplace. Pushes the heat out into the room. Works great.
    I wonder if that would work for me if I set it in front of my fireplace. I emailed them to ask how much heat is needed to run it.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Nope, this one goes to 150 feet - https://www.flojak.com/

    These go to 300 feet - https://www.bisonpumps.com/

    Yup, those are dual tube pumps. You’d need to pull your existing submerged pump and insert that on the well head for it to work.

    Not something you want to do. Doable, sure. However you cannot just slap it on your well line and go to town.

    And you’ll need some work too. Measure existing well depth, where is the water level, etc. you’ll need to ensure the water pickup is sufficiently below the water level (20ft below IIRC).

    None of this stuff is super advanced knowledge, but you need to know what you have. IIRC all counties have records since at least the 80s. So if your house is newer than that you can contact your county for records on your well (depth, capacity, flow rate).

    In the vast majority of cases your best option is a generator.

    My emergency plan if that goes **** up is filter and boil my creek water. We are a property or two from the two springs that feed it. Plenty fine for grey water use. Just filter and boil for drinking and cooking.
     

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