Are you allowed to lend a gun to a friend?

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  • Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    My definition of a true friend has always been:

    Someone, who eventhough you haven't talked to them for a couple of years, will loan you a gun, cash, and a vehicle when you show up unexpectedly, at 2am, on their doorstep, bloody, and naked... and not ask any questions. I can count my true friends on one hand.
     

    daggo66

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 31, 2013
    1,992
    Glen Burnie
    So many defenders of the HQL here that it’s sickening. Whether or not you would loan a handgun to a friend certainly depends on the friend. Not everyone has the same definition of friend. Seems like the ladies in red shirts have invaded this group, if not they should just print this thread and bring it to Annapolis so they can show everyone how gun owners agree with them.
     

    welder516

    Deplorable Welder
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    27,304
    Underground Bunker
    So many defenders of the HQL here that it’s sickening. Whether or not you would loan a handgun to a friend certainly depends on the friend. Not everyone has the same definition of friend. Seems like the ladies in red shirts have invaded this group, if not they should just print this thread and bring it to Annapolis so they can show everyone how gun owners agree with them.

    Maybe we are just trying to throw off the Ladies in Red :innocent0:innocent0;)
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,238
    Montgomery County
    So many defenders of the HQL here that it’s sickening. Whether or not you would loan a handgun to a friend certainly depends on the friend. Not everyone has the same definition of friend. Seems like the ladies in red shirts have invaded this group, if not they should just print this thread and bring it to Annapolis so they can show everyone how gun owners agree with them.

    Acknowledging that the law exists and has consequences if you get caught up in violating it isn't the same as defending it. How hard is that to understand?

    I find gravity, bad weather, getting old, and a lot of other actual real things to be present in life and outside of my control, and despite not "supporting" them, I have to take them into account. In Maryland, the HQL is - for now - a vector by which someone ignoring it can get in real, actual legal jeopardy. Making sure our like-minded fellow gun owners (or would-be gun owners) understand the treacherous waters we live in so they don't end being prohibited is supporting THEM, not the existence of the HQL.
     

    daggo66

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 31, 2013
    1,992
    Glen Burnie
    Acknowledging that the law exists and has consequences if you get caught up in violating it isn't the same as defending it. How hard is that to understand?

    I find gravity, bad weather, getting old, and a lot of other actual real things to be present in life and outside of my control, and despite not "supporting" them, I have to take them into account. In Maryland, the HQL is - for now - a vector by which someone ignoring it can get in real, actual legal jeopardy. Making sure our like-minded fellow gun owners (or would-be gun owners) understand the treacherous waters we live in so they don't end being prohibited is supporting THEM, not the existence of the HQL.

    The point is you need an HQL for purchase or transfer of ownership only. Saying people need one for other purposes is supporting it in a way it’s not intended, except in the mind of the gun grabbers. Far too many people here are quick to say you need an HQL without even remotely knowing the law.
     

    John2510

    Member
    Feb 15, 2011
    89
    Silver Spring, since 1973
    Getting it from the owner and driving away with it for a weekend's test shooting is not the same as being in the next lane over at the range from the observant owner, and using it.

    Legally, they appear to be indistinguishable.

    "We find that the temporary gratuitous exchange or loan of a regulated handgun between two adult individuals, who are otherwise permitted to own and obtain a regulated handgun, does not constitute an illegal “transfer” of a firearm... ..."
    https://caselaw.findlaw.com/md-court...s/1123356.html

    In the above case, the defendant left his gun with his friend after an aborted plan to test fire it at a range (the friend was considering purchasing it, after his gun was confiscated by the police in an earlier incident) and it was found by the police in the friend's car. The court said that isn't the kind of "transfer" contemplated by the statute.

    Almost no one on this thread seems able to distinguish between what's legal (the question), and they think is a good idea (not the question).

    Seems to me the remaining question is defining "temporary."
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,595
    Glen Burnie
    Legally, they appear to be indistinguishable.

    "We find that the temporary gratuitous exchange or loan of a regulated handgun between two adult individuals, who are otherwise permitted to own and obtain a regulated handgun, does not constitute an illegal “transfer” of a firearm... ..."
    https://caselaw.findlaw.com/md-court...s/1123356.html

    In the above case, the defendant left his gun with his friend after an aborted plan to test fire it at a range (the friend was considering purchasing it, after his gun was confiscated by the police in an earlier incident) and it was found by the police in the friend's car. The court said that isn't the kind of "transfer" contemplated by the statute.

    Almost no one on this thread seems able to distinguish between what's legal (the question), and they think is a good idea (not the question).

    Seems to me the remaining question is defining "temporary."
    See the highlighted/bold text. To me, in MD, that says HQL.

    Regarding the above argument about "defending the HQL," don't think for a second that my compliance with the law to the best of my ability based on the information I'm able to garner regarding it, means that I'm "defending it." I still believe that Maryland's HQL mandate is abhorrent and (at least according to my limited knowledge) unconstitutional. Be that as it may, in my efforts to be a law-abiding citizen of good standing, I'm not going to go out of my way to thumb my nose at it.
     

    rseymorejr

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2011
    26,009
    Harford County
    The thing is that between really good friends, the law and the wishes and whims of scum politicians don't even rate a blip on the radar screen.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,238
    Montgomery County
    The thing is that between really good friends, the law and the wishes and whims of scum politicians don't even rate a blip on the radar screen.

    Definitely true. Unless your friend gets in a car accident while he’s in possession of your pistol. Super unlikely? Sure.
     

    rog951

    Active Member
    Mar 6, 2018
    301
    Not far from Frederick
    Hasn't anyone noticed that the letter of the law doesn't really matter? If you're within a stone's throw of the edge, you may or may not be ticketed, fined, arrested or have your property confiscated. There's no way to know. All people are saying here is act accordingly. I'm all for anyone pushing the boundaries as I believe the system is bunk, but be prepared to pay a steep price if you guess wrong.
     

    daggo66

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 31, 2013
    1,992
    Glen Burnie
    See the highlighted/bold text. To me, in MD, that says HQL.

    Regarding the above argument about "defending the HQL," don't think for a second that my compliance with the law to the best of my ability based on the information I'm able to garner regarding it, means that I'm "defending it." I still believe that Maryland's HQL mandate is abhorrent and (at least according to my limited knowledge) unconstitutional. Be that as it may, in my efforts to be a law-abiding citizen of good standing, I'm not going to go out of my way to thumb my nose at it.

    When you highlight a part of the law and take it out of context to change it’s meaning you are absolutely defending the existence of the HQL.
     

    daggo66

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 31, 2013
    1,992
    Glen Burnie
    I don’t lend guns to anyone. Anyone who is that good of a friend for me to consider lending a gun to already has as many if not more guns than I do. My point is that we, as gun owners in MD living behind the enemy lines, continue to be our own worst enemy.
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,595
    Glen Burnie
    When you highlight a part of the law and take it out of context to change it’s meaning you are absolutely defending the existence of the HQL.
    How did I take it out of context? In Maryland, a person is not permitted to obtain a regulated handgun without an HQL or some other criteria that supersedes the HQL, such as being an LEO or member of the military in some capacity.

    One could make the argument that a person who legally owned a gun prior to FSA 2013 is good to go to loan a gun to regardless of the fact that they don't have an HQL, but that's a slippery slope, and it doesn't comply with what's stated in the statute: "... permitted to own and obtain a regulated handgun." It's the "and obtain" that's the sticking point.

    But hey, you do you - if you loan out a gun and it goes south, don't say you were never warned or that you didn't know.
     

    Matlack

    Scribe
    Dec 15, 2008
    8,555
    We should not have to ask this question. I still dont understand the members of this forum who think its a bad idea, other than the fact that MD has draconian laws that should be unconstitutional.
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,595
    Glen Burnie
    We should not have to ask this question. I still dont understand the members of this forum who think its a bad idea, other than the fact that MD has draconian laws that should be unconstitutional.
    I know I have a habit of highlighting what I believe to be the relevant points - sorry about that. But, with that said, I don't want to run any kind of risk that would prevent my ability to acquire or keep firearms. Maryland is so convoluted, that this can happen just a bit too easily.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,238
    Montgomery County
    Yet the very next set of words state: “does not constitute”. Add yourself to the MDA roster if you’re not already on it.

    Not sure why you're deliberately misinterpreting both the law and the intentions and moral compasses of your fellow members, here.

    Sure, it says, "does not constitute" a transfer ... IF the borrowing party meets the qualifications needed to obtain a handgun. Which means having an HQL, until some fine day when that law gets scrapped. Pointing out the language and what it means isn't the same as defending the concept. Asserting otherwise is just picking a fight with people for no good reason at all.
     

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